November 15, 200718 yr You might be right. I can see that but not necessaril with the Bears. They won ONE Super Bowl. Lost in the playoffs in succeeding years and never went back again. How does that qualify? Who did they beat in '85 that was that great? They faced an cinderella New England team that had upset Miami in the AFC title game. They beat a good Rams team that rode the back of Dickerson and a good NY Giant team but all these were at home. Miami beat the Steelers at Pittsburgh for the AFC title. However I think they aren't included because their run came immediately before the Steel Curtain run. Remember there has only been the following back to back Super Bowl Champs in history: 1967 & 68 Green Bay 1972 & 73 Miami 1974 & 75 Pittsburgh 1978 & 79 Pittsburgh 1988 & 89 San Francisco 1992 & 93 Dallas 1997 & 98 Denver 2003 & 04 New England That's only 8 times in 41 seasons of the Super Bowl. Another problem is that people forget they led the league in scoring and defense in '72 as well as had 6 members who are in the hall of Fame. (Bob Griese, Larry Csonka, Larry Little, Jim Langer, Nick Bounocotti, Paul Warfield)How many do the other teams listed above or mentioned have? Green Bay: Jim Taylor, Bart Starr, Ray Nischke, Jerry Kramer, Forrest Gregg Pittsburgh: Terry Bradshaw, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Franco Harris, Joe Greene, Mel Blount (?) San Fran: Joe Montana, Jerry Rice Dallas: Emmit Smith, Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin Denver: John Elway New England: ? Are they as good as this years New England? I don't know. Maybe not. Do they belong in the discussion? Yes, they do. We're not discussing the best multi-year run, or the best dynasty...it's the best single team, so what the Bears did in the 1985 season is the only thing that's relevant in the discussion. It doesn't matter what they did in '84 or '86. I didn't start watching football until the '86 Super Bowl when the Giants beat the Broncos, so I can't tell you much at all about the Bears...all I know is that when I hear any discussions about the greatest team of all time, that team is always mentioned, and usually early in the discussion.
November 15, 200718 yr We're not discussing the best multi-year run, or the best dynasty...it's the best single team, so what the Bears did in the 1985 season is the only thing that's relevant in the discussion. It doesn't matter what they did in '84 or '86. I didn't start watching football until the '86 Super Bowl when the Giants beat the Broncos, so I can't tell you much at all about the Bears...all I know is that when I hear any discussions about the greatest team of all time, that team is always mentioned, and usually early in the discussion. Okay, I can go that route. How many of those Bears from '85 are in the Hall of Fame? 1? 2? How does that not have bearing (pun) on the discussion? In '85, Chicago ranked #1 in scoring defense and #2 in scoring offense. They beat the West Div Champs (LA Rams) and the Giants (10-6 team) at home en route to the Super Bowl. Against (11-5) New England, Chicago gave up only 10 points in a 46-10 blowout. In '72, Miami lead the league in scoring and scoring defense. They beat the AFC Central Browns (10-4) and defeated the AFC Central Champion Steelers (11-3) at Pittsburgh en route to the Super Bowl. Against (11-3) Washington, Miami gave up no points on defense and were it not for the botched FG that is still a highlight, Miami would have won 14-0 vs. the 2nd ranked NFC offense that year. If you want to talk just one year, I'll still place Miami of '72 in the discussion. How tough was their competition? Many cite the records but here are some key people they defeated: They faced 8 of the top 10 passers that season: Beat them all. Faced 5 of the top 10 rushers in the NFL in '72: Beat them all. (BTW 2 of the top 10 were the Dolphins' RB's) In comparison, the Bears did not play that many of the top offenses in '85. BTW, in the Central Division that year the Bears were the only team with a winning record. Any comparisons you want to see can be found on these websites: http://www.databasefootball.com/leagues/leagueyear.htm?yr=1985&lg=nfl http://www.databasefootball.com/leagues/leagueyear.htm?yr=1972&lg=NFL
November 15, 200718 yr Okay, I can go that route. How many of those Bears from '85 are in the Hall of Fame? 1? 2? How does that not have bearing (pun) on the discussion? In '85, Chicago ranked #1 in scoring defense and #2 in scoring offense. They beat the West Div Champs (LA Rams) and the Giants (10-6 team) at home en route to the Super Bowl. Against (11-5) New England, Chicago gave up only 10 points in a 46-10 blowout. In '72, Miami lead the league in scoring and scoring defense. They beat the AFC Central Browns (10-4) and defeated the AFC Central Champion Steelers (11-3) at Pittsburgh en route to the Super Bowl. Against (11-3) Washington, Miami gave up no points on defense and were it not for the botched FG that is still a highlight, Miami would have won 14-0 vs. the 2nd ranked NFC offense that year. If you want to talk just one year, I'll still place Miami of '72 in the discussion. How tough was their competition? Many cite the records but here are some key people they defeated: They faced 8 of the top 10 passers that season: Beat them all. Faced 5 of the top 10 rushers in the NFL in '72: Beat them all. (BTW 2 of the top 10 were the Dolphins' RB's) In comparison, the Bears did not play that many of the top offenses in '85. BTW, in the Central Division that year the Bears were the only team with a winning record. Any comparisons you want to see can be found on these websites: http://www.databasefootball.com/leagues/leagueyear.htm?yr=1985&lg=nfl http://www.databasefootball.com/leagues/leagueyear.htm?yr=1972&lg=NFL I'm not gonna argue about the Bears vs. Dolphins. The '72 Dolphins have to be in any discussion about the greatest team ever because they're the only one that went undefeated. All I'm saying is that I've never heard them named first when that discussion comes up...in fact, I'm not even sure I've ever heard them named second. Like I said, it usually comes later. I can't tell you why or whether that's fair, but that's just what I've observed. All I can say is that if the 2007 Patriots go 19-0, I'd rate them ahead of the '72 Dolphins.
November 15, 200718 yr Hatz, that's pretty creative rigging of the data. The '72 'Fins beat exactly two teams in the regular season that finished with a winning record -- the Chiefs and Giants, who both burned it up at 8-6. The teams they beat went a combined 51-86-3. Now, you could argue that they can't control what their competition does, but you can also argue that the road to 17-0 wasn't exactly riddled with potholes.
November 15, 200718 yr If NE does go undefeated, I think it far surpasses the Dolphins' accomplishment, which is still great.
November 17, 200718 yr I'm not gonna argue about the Bears vs. Dolphins. The '72 Dolphins have to be in any discussion about the greatest team ever because they're the only one that went undefeated. All I'm saying is that I've never heard them named first when that discussion comes up...in fact, I'm not even sure I've ever heard them named second. Like I said, it usually comes later. I can't tell you why or whether that's fair, but that's just what I've observed. All I can say is that if the 2007 Patriots go 19-0, I'd rate them ahead of the '72 Dolphins. Check out a book that Sporting News published about 5 or 10 years ago. (May have been SI) They named the '72 Dolphins as #1 All-time. So they do get named near the top in many discussions.
November 17, 200718 yr Hatz, that's pretty creative rigging of the data. The '72 'Fins beat exactly two teams in the regular season that finished with a winning record -- the Chiefs and Giants, who both burned it up at 8-6. The teams they beat went a combined 51-86-3. Now, you could argue that they can't control what their competition does, but you can also argue that the road to 17-0 wasn't exactly riddled with potholes. Thanks. I'm really Karl Rove in disguise.
November 17, 200718 yr If I remember correctly weren't the Dolphins underdog to the Redskins in the Super Bowl?
November 17, 200718 yr The Pats are 9-0 currently. Come talk to me when they ACTUALLY get to undefeated status.
November 18, 200718 yr Wasn't this the year that Griese went down to an injury and the Dolphins did this with their backup QB and Griese returned for the Super Bowl. If so, could NE be doing what they are doing with Matt Castle?
November 19, 200718 yr If I remember correctly weren't the Dolphins underdog to the Redskins in the Super Bowl? Yes, they were 3 point underdogs. The reasons: The NFC was still considered the tougher league. The Dallas Cowboys had handled the Dolphins 24-3 in the previous Super Bowl. At the time Don Shula was considered a big "choker". (Lost the year before and to the Jets in Super Bowl III as the Coach of the Colts)
November 19, 200718 yr Wasn't this the year that Griese went down to an injury and the Dolphins did this with their backup QB and Griese returned for the Super Bowl. If so, could NE be doing what they are doing with Matt Castle? Yes. Bob Griese broke his leg in the 4th game vs. San Diego. He did not return until the AFC title game vs Pittsburgh, coming off the bench to lead the Fins to the win. Earl Morrall started games 5 through 16. He was considered a washout after the Super Bowl III fiasco against the Jets. He had a great season filling in for Griese.
November 19, 200718 yr :thumb: That's another point I started to make...when people start discussing the greatest teams ever, the '72 Dolphins are never the first team mentioned. Usually, after they go through the usual suspects of Bears, 49ers, Steelers and Cowboys...someone will say, we can't forget the '72 Dolphins. They are the only undefeated team ever. Maybe it's just me, but I get the impression that most people feel obligated to include them in the discussion because they ran the table, but if they'd lose just one game that year, they wouldn't even be included in the discussion. That's just my feeling. But, I certainly feel that the Steelers, Bears, 49ers, and Cowboys had teams that were superior, at the least. :thumb::thumb: Seconded.
November 19, 200718 yr "But, I certainly feel that the Steelers, Bears, 49ers, and Cowboys had teams that were superior, at the least." Me too. Who has a FB Stratomatic game to make it official?
November 20, 200718 yr "But, I certainly feel that the Steelers, Bears, 49ers, and Cowboys had teams that were superior, at the least." Me too. Who has a FB Stratomatic game to make it official? I do and the Dolphins win everytime!!! :lol: Now, how many on here know what mcpapa is talking about. :thumb: Try to think sports game before buttons and screens.
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