May 6, 200719 yr Where have I laid this all on LaRussa? It's on Hancock and he paid the ultimate price. What about the next Cardinal with this problem? He's lost a lot of his ability to lead this team. I'm not calling for legal action. I'm not transferring blame. I'm saying Doubleday should step down. Not be fired. Not leave in disgrace. I think it would be the best for the franchise. I guess time will tell... You have laid this on Larussa the whole thread. And I amongst a growing throng disagree with your opinion. A man had a problem and paid the ultimate price for not recognizing or addressing that problem. GT I'm frankly suprised that you have taken this stance. Misdirection of blame and responsibility is a true issue in todays society. I seriously doubt interaction with Larussa had anything to do with Hancocks problem at all. What happened lies directly at the feet of Josh Hancock. I think any mgr would stuggle with leading a team after such a tragedy has occurred.
May 6, 200719 yr Author You have laid this on Larussa the whole thread. And I amongst a growing throng disagree with your opinion. A man had a problem and paid the ultimate price for not recognizing or addressing that problem. GT I'm frankly suprised that you have taken this stance. Misdirection of blame and responsibility is a true issue in todays society. I seriously doubt interaction with Larussa had anything to do with Hancocks problem at all. What happened lies directly at the feet of Josh Hancock. I think any mgr would stuggle with leading a team after such a tragedy has occurred. So you really think, as the leader of this team, LaRussa and his mistake had no factor in this situation? He knew there was a serious problem and he couldn't reach out and help Hancock. The ultimate blame is on Hancock. But as a LEADER of men, LaRussa's ability to reach out is gone. LaRussa questioned as much himself...
May 6, 200719 yr So you really think, as the leader of this team, LaRussa and his mistake had no factor in this situation? He knew there was a serious problem and he couldn't reach out and help Hancock. The ultimate blame is on Hancock. But as a LEADER of men, LaRussa's ability to reach out is gone. LaRussa questioned as much himself... You care to guess how many ball players drive impaired each and every night. You been in a locker room after games and witnessed the prodigious amount of alcohol consumed by the "athletes"? Have you ever been to a player place of residence the morning after a night game to see the remains of one heck of a party and bleary eyed young men awaking around noon? You would be very naive to think this is an isolated incident and try to blame one guy. Hancock obviously had a drinking problem. I will guess he's not the only in MLB. Do we blame every manager for not being a leader (DUI or not) because if you want to place the blame on others than the players themselves then I guess all of them should step down, because this problem is with every team, not just the Cardinals.
May 6, 200719 yr Author You care to guess how many ball players drive impaired each and every night. You been in a locker room after games and witnessed the prodigious amount of alcohol consumed by the "athletes"? Have you ever been to a player place of residence the morning after a night game to see the remains of one heck of a party and bleary eyed young men awaking around noon? You would be very naive to think this is an isolated incident and try to blame one guy. Hancock obviously had a drinking problem. I will guess he's not the only in MLB. Do we blame every manager for not being a leader (DUI or not) because if you want to place the blame on others than the players themselves then I guess all of them should step down, because this problem is with every team, not just the Cardinals. This is exactly why you don't want a manager with a DUI running the team...
May 6, 200719 yr This is exactly why you don't want a manager with a DUI running the team... The only difference between Larussa and a lot of managers is he got caught. Alcohol is very prevelant in MLB, whether the manager has had a DUI has nothing to do with these guys drinking gallons of beer and then getting behind the wheel. Believe it or not very few pro athletes will listen to anybody when it comes to their personal life. By your theory of credibilty, Marvin Lewis should be one of the most credible guys in any locker room. Do his players heed his advice?? Nope!!:sssh:
May 6, 200719 yr Author The only difference between Larussa and a lot of managers is he got caught. The main issue is he got caught and received zero punishment from the team. If the guy is now questioning his own ability to lead that team, it seems I'm more right than most on here want to admit...
May 6, 200719 yr The main issue is he got caught and received zero punishment from the team. If the guy is now questioning his own ability to lead that team, it seems I'm more right than most on here want to admit... Leading the team and stopping guys from drinking are two different things. The premise of this thread suggested that because Larussa had a DUI that somehow was related to Hancocks problem and subsequetial death. If the guy has doubts about leading the team then yes he should step down. No manager or head coach in any pro sports has any control on what these guys do off the field. Whether we like it or not , that is reality.
May 6, 200719 yr Author Leading the team and stopping guys from drinking are two different things. Being the leader of men is far more than just filling out a lineup card and pulling pitchers IMO...
May 6, 200719 yr Being the leader of men is far more than just filling out a lineup card and pulling pitchers IMO... Does that mean that any coach or manager that have players with issues is a poor leader because they can't sway that player from wrongdoing? I really can't believe that you think pro athletes give a crap about what their coach thinks he should do off the field. If that was reality we wouldn't see the myriad of issues these guys have. We'll just have to disagree here. I'm out.
May 6, 200719 yr Does that mean that any coach or manager that have players with issues is a poor leader because they can't sway that player from wrongdoing? I really can't believe that you think pro athletes give a crap about what their coach thinks he should do off the field. If that was reality we wouldn't see the myriad of issues these guys have. We'll just have to disagree here. I'm out. Have you already forgotten all the stories from the Super Bowl and how the players said Tony Dungy and his high character (I would add strong foundation in his faith in Jesus.) affected them off the field and helped them to become better men, husbands and fathers. And does anyone really think Hancock took anything LaRussa said seriously in their little heart to heart after LaRussa had been doing the same thing? That is the old "do as I say, not as I do" mentality.
May 7, 200719 yr Jeff Fisher seems to be a good role model but Pac Man Jones makes ignorant choices. Marvin Lewis seems to be a class act yet the Bengals have all of their off the field issues. These are grown men making their own choices, cut and dry. If my boss goes out and gets busted for something do I think it is ok? No, I am a grown man and make my own decisions and I have to live with those choices and if I make bad ones then I can blame nobody but myself.
November 28, 200718 yr LaRussa pleads guilty.... "I accept full responsibility for my conduct, and assure everyone that I have learned a very valuable lesson and that this will never occur again". http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3131475
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