Watching the Western Hills vs Frankfort JV game last night I saw a very questionable call. With runners on 1st and 2nd and 2 outs in the 4th inning with a 6-1 lead, Western Hills hit an apparent double scoring both runs. However, the umpire called the batter out for missing first base. There was not an appeal (I am not sure the umpire can make that call without appeal or not). But, the part I couldn't believe was when the Western Hills Coach came out and told the scorekeeper to add the first run, because the runner scored before the umpire called the batter out. The worst thing was that the umpire agreed! Isn't that like saying if a runner is on third with 2 outs and a high pop up is caught in the infield that the run should count if the runner crossed homeplate before the ball is caught. Help me out! Is there anyway that a run can score when the 3rd out of the inning is an out on the way to 1st base?

Watching the Western Hills vs Frankfort JV game last night I saw a very questionable call. With runners on 1st and 2nd and 2 outs in the 4th inning with a 6-1 lead, Western Hills hit an apparent double scoring both runs. However, the umpire called the batter out for missing first base. There was not an appeal (I am not sure the umpire can make that call without appeal or not). But, the part I couldn't believe was when the Western Hills Coach came out and told the scorekeeper to add the first run, because the runner scored before the umpire called the batter out. The worst thing was that the umpire agreed! Isn't that like saying if a runner is on third with 2 outs and a high pop up is caught in the infield that the run should count if the runner crossed homeplate before the ball is caught. Help me out! Is there anyway that a run can score when the 3rd out of the inning is an out on the way to 1st base?

 

First off, there should be no out without an appeal, period.........However, had there been an appeal and a subsequent out on appeal i believe the preceeding runners would be allowed to score even though it was the third out. Let's say you have bases loaded and the batter hits a grand slam and while trotting the bases, he misses third base and is called out on appeal. The preceeding runners score, however, he does not..........

None of the runs count because first base was missed and the out ended the inning. In the "grand slam" scenario all 3 runs count and the batter is credited with a double, the last base he touched. Remember Robin Ventura's "grand single" against the Braves?

The umpire cannot call a runner out for missing a base without an appeal from the opposing team. The appeal has to be both on the specific runner and the base he missed. In this instance, if first base had been appealed and it was the third out of the inning, no runs would have counted. No runs can score and the last out of an inning if it is a force out.

First off, there should be no out without an appeal, period.........However, had there been an appeal and a subsequent out on appeal i believe the preceeding runners would be allowed to score even though it was the third out. Let's say you have bases loaded and the batter hits a grand slam and while trotting the bases, he misses third base and is called out on appeal. The preceeding runners score, however, he does not..........

Not 100% certain, but I believe an Umpire doesn't have to wait for an appeal, if he sees a runner miss a base. Certain appeal rules have changed and not completely certain, given this scenario.

 

I would assume, since the batter didn't touch first, that no runs should count, as he didn't "acquire" the base, thus effectively causing the 3rd out.

 

Interesting.

Being called out on an appeal for missing first base is the same as being thrown out at first base on a groundball. If its the 3rd out, it doesn't matter what the other runners do or when they score - their runs do not count. Its not a timing play when it involves first base and the third out.

From OBR:

 

7.12

Unless two are out, the status of a following runner is not affected by a preceding runner’s failure to touch or retouch a base. If, upon appeal, the preceding runner is the third out, no runners following him shall score. If such third out is the result of a force play, neither preceding nor following runners shall score.

Is there anyway that a run can score when the 3rd out of the inning is an out on the way to 1st base?

 

No. As long as the 3rd out is made on the batter-runner PRIOR to him acquiring first base, no runs can count.

The runs should count because it was not a force out situation. It was a hit then an out, almost like if he would of got thrown out going to second the runs would still count.

The runs should count because it was not a force out situation. It was a hit then an out, almost like if he would of got thrown out going to second the runs would still count.

 

Incorrect. See the rule I posted above. Its not a "hit" if you never touch first base. Until you acquire first base legally, its a force out for the 3rd out. No runs count.

Incorrect. See the rule I posted above. Its not a "hit" if you never touch first base. Until you acquire first base legally, its a force out for the 3rd out. No runs count.

 

I talked to an umpire about it the other night and cshs you are right on the money. Also the call should have never been made without an appeal.

I talked to an umpire about it the other night and cshs you are right on the money. Also the call should have never been made without an appeal.

 

Interesting, @ 4 years ago the umpire was responsible for going ahead and making the call without an appeal being necessary. This was probably a veteran umpire that made the call (one that no longer keeps up on the current rules). :D If the offensive coach didn't argue about it :argue:, I guess he quit going to the meetings too... :banana: :banana:

 

This rule changed @ 3 or 4 years ago in KY. I think it is a NFHS rule so that would mean OH uses the same rules.

The umpire can make NO call on a missed base without an appeal..and that appeal must come BEFORE the next pitch is thrown!!!