CovCath Highlands Week

[rjs4470]

8 hours ago, NKYRaider said:

I don’t recall anyone accusing them of being scared. I was addressing the absurd rule. I wasn’t aware it was only Kenton County. Regardless, that’s still impacts a good % of the overall teams in the league.
 

My question is, what is the difference between Cov Cath/New Cath teams and Conner? I assume Woodland can play Cov and New Cath, correct? Don’t those 2 teams pull from multiple schools? 

Not sure when/where/why the rule was created, but wish it would be removed. We shouldn’t have rules restricting games. We had to deal with similar rules in the NKYFL. Dumb.

I don’t know all the particulars, but Cov Cath and New Cath have agreed to the rules of the league, and have committed to only pulling kids from designated feeder schools. In essence, it’s similar to middle wrestling where our teams can compete with club teams because they’ve agreed to the rules of the league/governing body (in this case the NKMSAA which is ultimately following KHSAA rules). Because the Boone county teams have not yet agreed to only use kids from the specific feeder school (ie Gray-Ryle) or come in as a member school based team, they’ve never been allowed in. About 10 years ago, in the early days of the Union Raiders, they did play some games against NKMSAA teams. However, the NKMSAA teams were using those games as developmental/jv games and the Union team was made up of kids from all over Boone County/NKY. Not surprisingly, those games were mismatches, and they were very unapologetic about beating up on everyone’s backups. Ironically, this was one of the factors the rule we are discussing was put in place.

What’s important to keep in mind is if Boone County Schools would simply sanction and approve their middle schools to offer football as a sport, they would have been added to the NKMSAA years ago. Ockerman was taking the steps to join the league a year or two ago, but was ultimately rejected in their request to field a team by Boone County Schools. That to me is the biggest question in this scenario….why won’t Boone County Schools allow Middle School Football in their buildings?

[NKYRaider]

1 hour ago, rjs4470 said:

I don’t know all the particulars, but Cov Cath and New Cath have agreed to the rules of the league, and have committed to only pulling kids from designated feeder schools. In essence, it’s similar to middle wrestling where our teams can compete with club teams because they’ve agreed to the rules of the league/governing body (in this case the NKMSAA which is ultimately following KHSAA rules). Because the Boone county teams have not yet agreed to only use kids from the specific feeder school (ie Gray-Ryle) or come in as a member school based team, they’ve never been allowed in. About 10 years ago, in the early days of the Union Raiders, they did play some games against NKMSAA teams. However, the NKMSAA teams were using those games as developmental/jv games and the Union team was made up of kids from all over Boone County/NKY. Not surprisingly, those games were mismatches, and they were very unapologetic about beating up on everyone’s backups. Ironically, this was one of the factors the rule we are discussing was put in place.

What’s important to keep in mind is if Boone County Schools would simply sanction and approve their middle schools to offer football as a sport, they would have been added to the NKMSAA years ago. Ockerman was taking the steps to join the league a year or two ago, but was ultimately rejected in their request to field a team by Boone County Schools. That to me is the biggest question in this scenario….why won’t Boone County Schools allow Middle School Football in their buildings?

The primary issue seems to be the difference between how Boone Cty Middle schools are districted vs neighboring counties. That seems to really bother some folks in Kenton County. To say that the Boone teams are pulling kids from “all over Boone County” is inaccurate. They are playing kids that are districted to go to Ryle/Boone County/Cooper/or Conner. There are geographical boundaries (unlike the private schools that are already in the NKMSAA). Seems hypocritical if you ask me.

The concept of including ALL the MS kids that will attend one HS to form a team isn’t a new one. In short, that’s what Boone teams are doing. If Boone did what you suggested, there would be no true “feeder” teams. Just a hodgepodge of kids that would splt up when they go to HS.

But back to my original point, no offense, but I don’t think any team from Boone want to join NKMSAA from what I gathered. They seem very happy with the flexibility to manage their teams and schedules by their own rules. I just believe it’s silly if NKMSAA or Kenton Co (or whoever) to implement rules that stonewalls a team from one league to play one from another. 1000 people can come on here and say “we’ll play anyone anywhere” but unfortunately, that is not permitted, and that is NOT because of the Boone Cty teams and the Norseman league.

 

[rjs4470]

2 hours ago, NKYRaider said:

The primary issue seems to be the difference between how Boone Cty Middle schools are districted vs neighboring counties. That seems to really bother some folks in Kenton County. To say that the Boone teams are pulling kids from “all over Boone County” is inaccurate. They are playing kids that are districted to go to Ryle/Boone County/Cooper/or Conner. There are geographical boundaries (unlike the private schools that are already in the NKMSAA). Seems hypocritical if you ask me.

The concept of including ALL the MS kids that will attend one HS to form a team isn’t a new one. In short, that’s what Boone teams are doing. If Boone did what you suggested, there would be no true “feeder” teams. Just a hodgepodge of kids that would splt up when they go to HS.

But back to my original point, no offense, but I don’t think any team from Boone want to join NKMSAA from what I gathered. They seem very happy with the flexibility to manage their teams and schedules by their own rules. I just believe it’s silly if NKMSAA or Kenton Co (or whoever) to implement rules that stonewalls a team from one league to play one from another. 1000 people can come on here and say “we’ll play anyone anywhere” but unfortunately, that is not permitted, and that is NOT because of the Boone Cty teams and the Norseman league.

 

Perhaps I haven’t been very clear. I never said or insinuated that the Boone County teams are CURRENTLY pulling kids from all over the place. I have no idea how those teams are made up or where their kids are coming from. And I’m happy to take your word that they are all totally aligned with high school boundaries. I was referring to a time many years ago when the Union Raiders first showed up at the party. And at that time they WERE pulling kids from all over. That was also a time when the majority of middle school aged Boone County kids were still playing in the BCPWFL. 

As far as the NKMSAA being hypocritical, that’s not really true either. Kids have to play for the school they are enrolled in, which is what they would ask the BC teams to do. Cov Cath and NewCath are exceptions, but all their kids ARE enrolled in their designated feeder schools. For example, a kid from Turkeyfoot would have to play with TF. Summit View has kids that will eventually go to all three County High Schools..but their kids don’t have a choice where they want to play…they have to play with SVA. This is one of the reasons Cov Cath originally left..they wanted to be able to roster kids enrolled in county schools that would eventually go to Cov Cath, and the NKMSAA refused to let them do so. It’s also why Highlands took so long to join the NKMSAA. They wanted to be able to take kids from anywhere. If anything the NKMSAA has been very consistent and transparent. And I would agree when you say the BC teams are happy where they are at. It’s been many years since the Union Raiders have discussed joint the NKMSAA and the only other BC school I’m aware of expressing any interest in the last 8 or 10 years is Ockerman (which was a year or two ago). I will also say if the individual BC schools wanted to come in with school based teams (as they do in the basketball league with absolutely zero complaints), the NKMSAA would welcome them in without a second thought. If Gray MS (or any BC MS) started a football team made up of only Gray MS kids, they’d be accepted with open arms (just like their basketball teams). And once again, the NKMSAA has endorsed and recommended that their teams play BC teams to fill holes in their schedule. The NKMSAA does not prevent member schools from playing games outside of the league as long as the schedule allows.

In regards to Kenton County Schools decision to not allow their teams to play non school based teams outside of the NKMSAA, that’s purely a liability issue. Games vs Non league/non school based teams are not covered by the catastrophic liability insurance. It’s not a stonewalling, anti Boone County rule. 
 

Could Kenton County be a little more flexible in football as they are in wrestling (where they do compete with club based teams…but that’s a whole other can of worms). Absolutely. Could Boone County just stop being equally rigid and allow their schools to start football teams? That would solve the problem as well. 
 

Regardless, everyone seems to be happy with the current setup, so any arguments for or against are pretty much moot.

 

 

 

[NKYRaider]

49 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Perhaps I haven’t been very clear. I never said or insinuated that the Boone County teams are CURRENTLY pulling kids from all over the place. I have no idea how those teams are made up or where their kids are coming from. And I’m happy to take your word that they are all totally aligned with high school boundaries. I was referring to a time many years ago when the Union Raiders first showed up at the party. And at that time they WERE pulling kids from all over. That was also a time when the majority of middle school aged Boone County kids were still playing in the BCPWFL. 

As far as the NKMSAA being hypocritical, that’s not really true either. Kids have to play for the school they are enrolled in, which is what they would ask the BC teams to do. Cov Cath and NewCath are exceptions, but all their kids ARE enrolled in their designated feeder schools. For example, a kid from Turkeyfoot would have to play with TF. Summit View has kids that will eventually go to all three County High Schools..but their kids don’t have a choice where they want to play…they have to play with SVA. This is one of the reasons Cov Cath originally left..they wanted to be able to roster kids enrolled in county schools that would eventually go to Cov Cath, and the NKMSAA refused to let them do so. It’s also why Highlands took so long to join the NKMSAA. They wanted to be able to take kids from anywhere. If anything the NKMSAA has been very consistent and transparent. And I would agree when you say the BC teams are happy where they are at. It’s been many years since the Union Raiders have discussed joint the NKMSAA and the only other BC school I’m aware of expressing any interest in the last 8 or 10 years is Ockerman (which was a year or two ago). I will also say if the individual BC schools wanted to come in with school based teams (as they do in the basketball league with absolutely zero complaints), the NKMSAA would welcome them in without a second thought. If Gray MS (or any BC MS) started a football team made up of only Gray MS kids, they’d be accepted with open arms (just like their basketball teams). And once again, the NKMSAA has endorsed and recommended that their teams play BC teams to fill holes in their schedule. The NKMSAA does not prevent member schools from playing games outside of the league as long as the schedule allows.

In regards to Kenton County Schools decision to not allow their teams to play non school based teams outside of the NKMSAA, that’s purely a liability issue. Games vs Non league/non school based teams are not covered by the catastrophic liability insurance. It’s not a stonewalling, anti Boone County rule. 
 

Could Kenton County be a little more flexible in football as they are in wrestling (where they do compete with club based teams…but that’s a whole other can of worms). Absolutely. Could Boone County just stop being equally rigid and allow their schools to start football teams? That would solve the problem as well. 
 

Regardless, everyone seems to be happy with the current setup, so any arguments for or against are pretty much moot.

 

 

 

Union Raiders has always been all Ryle kids from the start. Not sure where you’re getting your information.

And it is hypocritical to allow Cov/Newcath IN the league, but won’t even allow a coach from Kenton Co to play a BC school. Sorry, but the explanation of “designated schools” sounds silly. What’s the difference between that and what the Boone teams are doing??

Valid point regarding basketball, but again, Union Raiders was formed to develop players that would ultimately be at Ryle. That’s the main goal. That cannot be done in the NKMSAA. That’s not being rigid, that’s sticking with your core values and mission.

The other component that we haven’t discussed is the impact of open enrollment in Kenton Co. What’s the point in having a feeder MS program if there is open enrollment in HS? Impossible to predict where kids will end up. 
 

[theguru]

"Can we all get along?"

[BigErn]

40 minutes ago, NKYRaider said:

Union Raiders has always been all Ryle kids from the start. Not sure where you’re getting your information.

And it is hypocritical to allow Cov/Newcath IN the league, but won’t even allow a coach from Kenton Co to play a BC school. Sorry, but the explanation of “designated schools” sounds silly. What’s the difference between that and what the Boone teams are doing??

Valid point regarding basketball, but again, Union Raiders was formed to develop players that would ultimately be at Ryle. That’s the main goal. That cannot be done in the NKMSAA. That’s not being rigid, that’s sticking with your core values and mission.

The other component that we haven’t discussed is the impact of open enrollment in Kenton Co. What’s the point in having a feeder MS program if there is open enrollment in HS? Impossible to predict where kids will end up. 
 

I would also like the “designated schools” rule clarified if possible. It’s my understanding that any parochial school student can attend either NewCath or CovCath, which doesn’t necessarily sound fair or inline with what the NKMSAA is trying to accomplish. Are there indeed designated parishes that each school has to pull from? And if so, which are each school’s “feeders”?

[rjs4470]

57 minutes ago, NKYRaider said:

Union Raiders has always been all Ryle kids from the start. Not sure where you’re getting your information.

And it is hypocritical to allow Cov/Newcath IN the league, but won’t even allow a coach from Kenton Co to play a BC school. Sorry, but the explanation of “designated schools” sounds silly. What’s the difference between that and what the Boone teams are doing??

Valid point regarding basketball, but again, Union Raiders was formed to develop players that would ultimately be at Ryle. That’s the main goal. That cannot be done in the NKMSAA. That’s not being rigid, that’s sticking with your core values and mission.

The other component that we haven’t discussed is the impact of open enrollment in Kenton Co. What’s the point in having a feeder MS program if there is open enrollment in HS? Impossible to predict where kids will end up. 
 

Different ways to get to the same place. One could argue that club based teams are less inclusive and don’t necessarily promote participation within the school. And it can also be argued that school based programs do more to promote keeping the kids within your district. There are certainly advantages to club based teams, not the least of which is the ability to not have to abide by any school enforced academic or discipline standards. I’m guessing most non school based teams aren’t checking grades. 
 

I’m not saying one is any better than the other. Playing in the NKMSAA hasn’t hurt Any of the teams in the league. And not playing in the NKMSAA hasn’t hurt the Boone County teams. 

[rjs4470]

27 minutes ago, BigErn said:

I would also like the “designated schools” rule clarified if possible. It’s my understanding that any parochial school student can attend either NewCath or CovCath, which doesn’t necessarily sound fair or inline with what the NKMSAA is trying to accomplish. Are there indeed designated parishes that each school has to pull from? And if so, which are each school’s “feeders”?

Correct. Each team has specified “feeder” schools. Cov Cath’s I think are all located in Kenton County. 

[BigErn]

14 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Correct. Each team has specified “feeder” schools. Cov Cath’s I think are all located in Kenton County. 

Do we know the feeders?  So there are no Ohio kids playing for CovCath, and no Kenton county kids playing for NewCath?

[NKYRaider]

29 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Different ways to get to the same place. One could argue that club based teams are less inclusive and don’t necessarily promote participation within the school. And it can also be argued that school based programs do more to promote keeping the kids within your district. There are certainly advantages to club based teams, not the least of which is the ability to not have to abide by any school enforced academic or discipline standards. I’m guessing most non school based teams aren’t checking grades. 
 

I’m not saying one is any better than the other. Playing in the NKMSAA hasn’t hurt Any of the teams in the league. And not playing in the NKMSAA hasn’t hurt the Boone County teams. 

Less inclusive? How so? Every kid in Boone Cty MS has a team to play for, just like in Kenton or Campbell. 

And hard to call a team a feeder when there is open enrollment in Kenton Co. How can they know where they’re going to HS? I understand the occasional Cov or Beechwood departure, but Kenton County is the Wild Wild West. Kids can go anywhere.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

1 hour ago, BigErn said:

I would also like the “designated schools” rule clarified if possible. It’s my understanding that any parochial school student can attend either NewCath or CovCath, which doesn’t necessarily sound fair or inline with what the NKMSAA is trying to accomplish. Are there indeed designated parishes that each school has to pull from? And if so, which are each school’s “feeders”?

 

48 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Correct. Each team has specified “feeder” schools. Cov Cath’s I think are all located in Kenton County. 

There are no designated feeder schools in the Diocese. There hasn't been a feeder school system in the Diocese for about a quarter-century now, but people continue to wail and gnash their teeth about "non-feeder kids" going to Cov Cath, New Cath, and so on.

If there are "feeder schools" established by the NKMSAA for the CYF and New Cath youth programs, then those are created only for the sake of the NKMSAA and have zero bearing on where those kids will actually end up in high school.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

35 minutes ago, BigErn said:

Do we know the feeders?  So there are no Ohio kids playing for CovCath, and no Kenton county kids playing for NewCath?

Why does this continue to matter? I saw in the video introductions for the Cov Cath vs. Highlands game on Friday that Highlands has Higgason who went to Summit Country Day, and Kissee who went to Campbell Ridge Elementary. Who cares? I know I don't...

[BigErn]

Just now, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

Why does this continue to matter? I saw in the video introductions for the Cov Cath vs. Highlands game on Friday that Highlands has Higgason who went to Summit Country Day, and Kissee who went to Campbell Ridge Elementary. Who cares? I know I don't...

Because the prior poster with knowledge on the NKMSAA said they have designated schools they have to pull from. I’m wondering who those are. The Raider fan has a valid point that it doesn’t really jive with their reasoning for excluding the Boone teams. 

[theguru]

3 minutes ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

Why does this continue to matter? I saw in the video introductions for the Cov Cath vs. Highlands game on Friday that Highlands has Higgason who went to Summit Country Day, and Kissee who went to Campbell Ridge Elementary. Who cares? I know I don't...

Those video intros are amazing for a high school football broadcast!

[rjs4470]

57 minutes ago, BigErn said:

Because the prior poster with knowledge on the NKMSAA said they have designated schools they have to pull from. I’m wondering who those are. The Raider fan has a valid point that it doesn’t really jive with their reasoning for excluding the Boone teams. 

Here’s the thing. I don’t think the Boone teams have even asked to join outside of the Raiders 10 or so years ago. Who knows, the answer now might be different.

But to answer your question Cov Cath pulls from Kenton County parish schools. Don’t know New Cath’s schools.