Tubby = Coker...thoughts?

[YAKOFNORWEGIA]

No idea, perhaps teams like Florida, LSU, Tennessee, Alabama will have a lot to do with the success of UK, since they aren't going to give them anything.

 

I think several of you have valid points, but many are overlooking a critical factor in college athletics....UK was dominant at times, during decades, ups and downs but other programs are getting better to. They have the same goal, win and All-Americans are going to other schools, mid-majors, NAIA and plenty of high school players are leaving early. Other teams are improving and closing the gaps on UK, UNC, Duke....Georgetown was at top of the heap with great players, but were not able to sustain.

 

Recruiting is a crap-shoot at best, systems fit some better and others digress....for the record, do I like Coach Smith's offense....NO.

 

A college team, can't climb the ladder and stay there uncontested....not in today's time.

If UK doesn't win an SEC title, or advance past the second round in the next two years. How will you feel?

[Hard Rock Fan]

If UK doesn't win an SEC title, or advance past the second round in the next two years. How will you feel?

 

Pretty much the same, since they didn't do it last year either.

[Log Mountain Boy]

How many of these will get checkmarks this year? How many got check marks last year?

 

No one knows about this year. Thats why we play the games.

[YAKOFNORWEGIA]

No one knows about this year. Thats why we play the games.

True, no one knows. I would venture to say that if the fortunes aren't reversed many of you who currently are ok with the state of affairs will be wanting to see a change.

 

If the fortunes are reversed, those who are wanting a change now will have to eat crow.

 

Would you rather eat crow later or want a change later?

[Hard Rock Fan]

True, no one knows. I would venture to say that if the fortunes aren't reversed many of you who currently are ok with the state of affairs will be wanting to see a change.

 

If the fortunes are reversed, those who are wanting a change now will have to eat crow.

 

Would you rather eat crow later or want a change later?

 

I would rather eat crow, because that means they would have accomplished something. But I have already said if Tubby is able to turn the team around, I'll be the first person to say give him a contract extension.

[STRIKE3]

If UK doesn't win an SEC title, or advance past the second round in the next two years. How will you feel?

Things happen for a reason, often which we don't understand. I'm not a big believer in luck or catching breaks, but rather things happen they way they are meant to happen, for a reason.

 

I would chalk it up to, wasn't meant to be. Just like the statement about UK Football, I often make....UK fans deserve to have a football program, with more than 17 winning seasons, out of the last 51. Coach Brooks has done that this year and I've been critical of him....He's got the job done this year, so he must be given his credit.

 

If being optimistic, I would like to see UK 30-4 each year, in the Final Four but that is unreal expectations.

[5wide]

Take off the blue colored glasses and you'd see it. I'm not a UK Bball fan(I don't even like Bball) but the program has gotten worse since he has been there for one simple reason. In order to be successful in college Bball you have to recruit well and he CAN'T. Thats all it boils down to right there.

 

I think you nailed problem #1 there. Of course, his inability to handle the blue chip players he does get is also a big problem. I know all don't agree, but I think the biggest reason elite players don't pick UK and are often unhappy when they get there is because of the style Tubby plays.

 

Elite players want to play at a fast tempo and showcase their talent. Not only does it showcase their talent, but it maximizes their talent, IMO. Tubby coaches almost like he is the underdog.

 

Consider it like this...inferior teams often want to slow the game down and minimize the number of possessions because it gives them their best chance to win against a more talented team. If you are the better team, then the faster you play and the more possessions you create increases the chances of winning because you have better players. Plus, when you have a lot of talented players, it's easier to keep them happy when you play fast.

 

Anyone who thinks this doesn't play a huge role in Tubby's inability to recruit, specifically against teams like UNC and Duke are kidding themselves.

As long as we're playing slow down, half-court, stand around offense that frequently scores in the 60-65 point range while UNC and Duke are racing up and down the court putting 80+ up on a consistent basis, they're going to consistently beat us on and off the court.

[STRIKE3]

I think you nailed problem #1 there. Of course, his inability to handle the blue chip players he does get is also a big problem. I know all don't agree, but I think the biggest reason elite players don't pick UK and are often unhappy when they get there is because of the style Tubby plays.

 

Elite players want to play at a fast tempo and showcase their talent. Not only does it showcase their talent, but it maximizes their talent, IMO. Tubby coaches almost like he is the underdog.

 

Consider it like this...inferior teams often want to slow the game down and minimize the number of possessions because it gives them their best chance to win against a more talented team. If you are the better team, then the faster you play and the more possessions you create increases the chances of winning because you have better players. Plus, when you have a lot of talented players, it's easier to keep them happy when you play fast.

 

Anyone who thinks this doesn't play a huge role in Tubby's inability to recruit, specifically against teams like UNC and Duke are kidding themselves.

As long as we're playing slow down, half-court, stand around offense that frequently scores in the 60-65 point range while UNC and Duke are racing up and down the court putting 80+ up on a consistent basis, they're going to consistently beat us on and off the court.

5Wide, you can coach on my team anytime....:thumb:

 

I agree, players like to shoot/score. What is the first thing you see young high school players, or younger do....get the ball, launch a shot behind the 3pt line and hope. Next thing, is trying to dunk....Defense, required total concentration, focus, athleticism and commitment, which is not always a priority today and certainly, doesn't garner the same attention.

[YAKOFNORWEGIA]

Things happen for a reason, often which we don't understand. I'm not a big believer in luck or catching breaks, but rather things happen they way they are meant to happen, for a reason.

 

I would chalk it up to, wasn't meant to be. Just like the statement about UK Football, I often make....UK fans deserve to have a football program, with more than 17 winning seasons, out of the last 51. Coach Brooks has done that this year and I've been critical of him....He's got the job done this year, so he must be given his credit.

 

If being optimistic, I would like to see UK 30-4 each year, in the Final Four but that is unreal expectations.

I didn't ask for 30-4 or every Final Four, I just asked how you would feel if they didn't meet the expectations that you wrote down for the next few years.

[5wide]

5Wide, you can coach on my team anytime....:thumb:

 

I agree, players like to shoot/score. What is the first thing you see young high school players, or younger do....get the ball, launch a shot behind the 3pt line and hope. Next thing, is trying to dunk....Defense, required total concentration, focus, athleticism and commitment, which is not always a priority today and certainly, doesn't garner the same attention.

 

Defense can't be overlooked by any means, but it can't be your sole focus either. Sometimes it seems that defense is all Tubby is focused on...he doesn't care if you're offensively inept as long as you give a good effort on defense. I understand the principle of the thing, but it's just not that simple.

 

I could elaborate a lot more on that, but I don't want to bore you with a long post.

 

I'm not calling for Tubby's head anyway. I'd just like to see him adjust with the changing landscape in college hoops...like playing faster, instead of just paying lip service to it.

 

I've seen a lot I like about this year's UK team. I think they have a lot of potential and could be very good by season's end. We should have a better idea of what they're going to be in 4 to 6 weeks.

[STRIKE3]

Defense can't be overlooked by any means, but it can't be your sole focus either. Sometimes it seems that defense is all Tubby is focused on...he doesn't care if you're offensively inept as long as you give a good effort on defense. I understand the principle of the thing, but it's just not that simple.

 

I could elaborate a lot more on that, but I don't want to bore you with a long post.

 

I'm not calling for Tubby's head anyway. I'd just like to see him adjust with the changing landscape in college hoops...like playing faster, instead of just paying lip service to it.

 

I've seen a lot I like about this year's UK team. I think they have a lot of potential and could be very good by season's end. We should have a better idea of what they're going to be in 4 to 6 weeks.

Agreed on the tempo....Note the date and time but one thing I don't like about Coach Smith's offense, which you sound the same is the following....Change the offensive style/scheme, to the talent level of players and not always the players, must adapt to the scheme.

 

Now, I do realize that "conservatism", which most would agree UK's is keeps you in defensive games but doesnt often help, in the up tempo style of play or when a bad perimeter shooting night, is occurring.

[5wide]

Agreed on the tempo....Note the date and time but one thing I don't like about Coach Smith's offense, which you sound the same is the following....Change the offensive style/scheme, to the talent level of players and not always the players, must adapt to the scheme.

 

Now, I do realize that "conservatism", which most would agree UK's is keeps you in defensive games but doesnt often help, in the up tempo style of play or when a bad perimeter shooting night, is occurring.

 

Honestly, I just think a faster tempo and a little more focus on offense would solve a whole lot of problems with UK basketball.

 

1) It would help with recruiting.

2) It would eliminate a lot of the standing around on offense and uninspired efforts.

3) It would maximize the talent of players like Bradley, Crawford, Jasper, Meeks...and probably past players like Rondo and others.

4) It would decrease the chances of us losing games that we shouldn't to inferior opponents.

5) It could probably help negate our obvious rebounding and inside weakness.

 

Not to mention, it would greatly decrease the number of UK games that are about as exciting as watching paint dry.

 

We don't need a new coach...we just need our coach to be willing to adjust. I think coaches need to change with the times to some extent and Tubby has yet to show that he is willing to do that. His old school defensive approach isn't maximizing the potential of a program like UK.

[STRIKE3]

Honestly, I just think a faster tempo and a little more focus on offense would solve a whole lot of problems with UK basketball.

 

1) It would help with recruiting.

2) It would eliminate a lot of the standing around on offense and uninspired efforts.

3) It would maximize the talent of players like Bradley, Crawford, Jasper, Meeks...and probably past players like Rondo and others.

4) It would decrease the chances of us losing games that we shouldn't to inferior opponents.

5) It could probably help negate our obvious rebounding and inside weakness.

 

Not to mention, it would greatly decrease the number of UK games that are about as exciting as watching paint dry.

 

We don't need a new coach...we just need our coach to be willing to adjust. I think coaches need to change with the times to some extent and Tubby has yet to show that he is willing to do that. His old school defensive approach isn't maximizing the potential of a program like UK.

Like I said, you can coach on my team anytime....:thumb:

[GulfCoastTyrant]

I just don't think Tubby can coach the type of players that belong at UK, you know the really great players.

 

Of course Tubby can take good players like Gerald Fitch, Marquis Estill, Erick Daniels etc. and mold them into really good college players in 3 or 4 years, but what about the players that can come in and immediatley make a huge impact.

 

 

Jason Parker- left the team

Rashaad Carruth(sp.)- kicked off team

Keith Bogans- good 4 year player, never reached true potential under Tubby

Tayshaun Prince- much better in NBA than college

Morris- tried to got to NBA after freshman year

Crawford- tried to leave during middle of Fresh. year, never has reached potential

Rondo- we all know that story, wasn't good enough to start half the year for Tubby last year, but good enough to wow scouts and fans as a rookie for the Celtics.

 

 

Comparing Coker to Tubby

 

I think some of the above mentioned problems, along with:

#1. Academic ineligibility with several players.

#2. Players quitting the team,

#3. Saul Smith (nuff said)

#4. Coaching Olympic ball instead of recruiting.

#5. Billy Donovan killing us.

#6. Ryan Hogan Drunk Driving.

#7. Myron Anthony's hit and run fleeing.

#8. Inconcistent recruiting.

 

i'm leaving some more out but...I'm just being objective that Coker has a MUCH, MUCH bigger team to be responsible for then a couple handfuls of basketball players.

[Booge]

Things happen for a reason, often which we don't understand. I'm not a big believer in luck or catching breaks, but rather things happen they way they are meant to happen, for a reason.

 

I would chalk it up to, wasn't meant to be. Just like the statement about UK Football, I often make....UK fans deserve to have a football program, with more than 17 winning seasons, out of the last 51. Coach Brooks has done that this year and I've been critical of him....He's got the job done this year, so he must be given his credit.

 

If being optimistic, I would like to see UK 30-4 each year, in the Final Four but that is unreal expectations.

 

That is the difference in us right there. You say "it wasn't meant to be" and I say "do whatever it takes to make it happen." You think if Rick Pitino was our coach right now he would be saying "it just wasn't meant to be?" No way. Nothing personal at all S3, I enjoy your posts most of the time, but "just wasn't meant to be" is an excuse and cop-out, and anyone saying that is making excuses for not getting the job done - whether it be sports or whatever...

 

Try telling your boss "it wasn't meant to be" and you would be out the door in a hurry...