A question that I don't have an answer for.

 

I child goes to parochial school in Hardin County through the 8th grade. There is no Catholic High School there. As I read this proposal the only way this person would be eligible for athletics as a freshamn would be to go to a Catholic High School in Louisville or Bardstown. Is this correct?

 

Good question. If they use the "Diocese" as the feeder system, he'd be free to go to a Catholic school in Bardstown or Louisville.

 

It appears that NKY will be using the Diocese as the territory.

Good question. If they use the "Diocese" as the feeder system, he'd be free to go to a Catholic school in Bardstown or Louisville.

 

It appears that NKY will be using the Diocese as the territory.

Is it the High Schools that define thier feeder schools? If so, wouldn't more High schools open up thier previeous boundaries to include more middle and grade schools. For example, if the High School systems in and around Pike County don't include the Catholic Grade School near Pikeville as a feeder school, the only place that kids from that school could play as 9th graders would be Lexington Catholic High School. Now if Lexington Catholic implemented a policy of providing transportation to and from school for all students that requested it, and just suppose that a helicopter or private jet were used for that transportation, don't you think that it would cause more of an uproar than is already in place. Then do you think more schools would approve of proposal 8 in terms of enforcement? (Just trying to stir the pot)

Is it the High Schools that define thier feeder schools? If so, wouldn't more High schools open up thier previeous boundaries to include more middle and grade schools. For example, if the High School systems in and around Pike County don't include the Catholic Grade School near Pikeville as a feeder school, the only place that kids from that school could play as 9th graders would be Lexington Catholic High School. Now if Lexington Catholic implemented a policy of providing transportation to and from school for all students that requested it, and just suppose that a helicopter or private jet were used for that transportation, don't you think that it would cause more of an uproar than is already in place. Then do you think more schools would approve of proposal 8 in terms of enforcement? (Just trying to stir the pot)

And there you run into the problem that the public schools are having with private schools. A rural school as Harrison County is cannot open it's borders outside the county limits of Harrison County. That is the only feeder system they can pull from.

 

Yet, LC from my understanding has a diocese from Pikeville to Frankfort, Berea to Georgetown. And that will be their feeder system.

You are going to expect a staff member to review every conversation between parents on an AAU team. My point is that I don't think the above situation is enforceable as recruiting at all. And THAT is where the majority of recruiting is going on.

 

Would you expect AAU teammates to never discuss what would happen if they played the regular HS season together? I don't think that is realistic or enforceable to not do but it is where the recruiting goes on.

 

 

Do you think that type of recruiting is wrong? If so, why?

 

At the end of the day, IF, and please note that's big if, the State Board approves Proposal 2 and the courts uphold proposal in the sure lawsuit that follows, what will result is more students simply transferring before the 7th grade or a lot more changes of residence being made to get around the rule. The former choice means that before kids and their parents are even given the opportunity to find out a little bit about their home school programs (and possibly decide to stay at their "home" school) they will be transferring to another school system. Parents are not going to be willing to take the chance that their "home" school will work out the best. Rather, they are not going to roll the dice for what is best for their children. They are going to go with the sure thing. The latter choice will result in many, many more legal cases before the KHSAA and eventually the courts. When that happens and the membership dues have to be increased, the schools will again complain.

 

When its all said and done, in spite of what you and other people think about kids being forced to attend their "home" school out of community pride or whatever, high school (both academically and athletically) is much too important in the development of children to worry about community pride, and Proposal 2 will not accomplish what the supporters hope it will. When it fails, I guess we'll have Proposal 2 on steroids, which will require parents to enroll their kids in kindergarden in the school system that they will eventually play high school sports in. Try as some people might to stop transfers, 99% of the parents of kids transferring do so for legitimate reasons and legitimate concerns and there is nothing wrong with that. And even the 1% who do it for the wrong reason, still should have the right to make that decision, unfettered by rules that some school administrators, coaches etc want to foist upon them. You may not agree with the parents decisions as to why they transfer, but they are not your children.

Do you think that type of recruiting is wrong? If so, why?

 

At the end of the day, IF, and please note that's big if, the State Board approves Proposal 2 and the courts uphold proposal in the sure lawsuit that follows, what will result is more students simply transferring before the 7th grade or a lot more changes of residence being made to get around the rule. The former choice means that before kids and their parents are even given the opportunity to find out a little bit about their home school programs (and possibly decide to stay at their "home" school, they will be transferring to another school system. Parents are not going to be willing to take the chance that their "home" school will work out the best. Rather, they are not going to roll the dice for what is best for their children. They are going to go with the sure thing. The latter choice will result in many, many more legal cases before the KHSAA and eventually the courts. When that happens and the membership dues have to be increased, the schools will again complain.

 

When its all said and done, in spite of what you and other people think about kids being forced to attend their "home" school out of community pride or whatever, high school (both academically and athletically) is much too important in the development of children to worry about community pride, and Proposal 2 will not accomplish what the supporters hope it will. When it fails, I guess we'll have Proposal 2 on steroids, which will require parents to enroll their kids in kindergarden in the school system that they will eventually play high school sports in. Try as some people might to stop transfers, 99% of the parents of kids transferring do so for legitimate reasons and legitimate concerns and there is nothing wrong with that. And even the 1% who do it for the wrong reason, still should have the right to make that decision, unfettered by rules that some school administrators, coaches etc want to foist upon them.

In post 130, I posted the following....

 

Is this illegal recruiting? How would this be enforced by Prop 8 any differently than what is done now? To me, THIS IS THE RECRUITING DONE. How do you enforce this? Is it even illegal or immoral? I am not sure there is anything wrong with it but it is, in my opinion, how school's begin to pool talent. Through the players themselves recruiting their teammates off of AAU teams.

 

As I have repeatedly said, I believe there is a blatant unlevel playing field but it is rural/urban and not private/public. (Not that I ever expect anyone to really do anything about it. Us rednecks are just supposed to be quiet and take it. )

 

Just look at golf. Harrison County has one golf course and it is a private country club. If your parents don't have the approximately 1500 to 2000 dollars to join, you can't grow up playing golf in Harrison County. Now compare that to any of the Lexington schools that are situated around how many public courses?

You are going to expect a staff member to review every conversation between parents on an AAU team. My point is that I don't think the above situation is enforceable as recruiting at all. And THAT is where the majority of recruiting is going on.

 

Would you expect AAU teammates to never discuss what would happen if they played the regular HS season together? I don't think that is realistic or enforceable to not do but it is where the recruiting goes on.

 

My concern wouldn't be whether or not she was recruited. The concern would be whether the transfer was within the rules set forth by KHSAA. If these transfers are reviewed and the ones outside the guidelines are punished with ineligibilty, the recruiting becomes much less of an issue.

A rural school as Harrison County is cannot open it's borders outside the county limits of Harrison County. That is the only feeder system they can pull from.

 

.

 

Guru and others(including me) would point out that its not a case of "can't" but, rather, a case of "will not."

Guru and others(including me) would point out that its not a case of "can't" but, rather, a case of "will not."

With the new proposal of feeding schools, will they still be able to without the player having to sit out a year? I am confused if you are implying that open enrollment will not effect the defining of feeder schools.:confused:

With the new proposal of feeding schools, will they still be able to without the player having to sit out a year? I am confused if you are implying that open enrollment will not effect the defining of feeder schools.:confused:

 

My point , and others', is that the crux of the argument has been that public schools CANNOT accept kids from outside of their district. As Guru and others have pointed out for the last year or so, its not a case of "can't." They have chosen not to which has resulted in this silly rule.

My point , and others', is that the crux of the argument has been that public schools CANNOT accept kids from outside of their district. As Guru and others have pointed out for the last year or so, its not a case of "can't." They have chosen not to which has resulted in this silly rule.

Understand that but we were debating the feeder system proposal. And would that not change the effect of open enrollment for a rural county like Harrison County for at least the first year? HC has open enrollment and a kid decides to attend from Scott County MS. They would be ineligible that first year no matter what the enrollment position of the HC BOE, right?

 

And yet in a school like the Jefferson's and Fayette's they could have feeder systems from multiple MS's.

 

THus, the unlevel playing field is more of a result of urban and rural than anything.

Good question. If they use the "Diocese" as the feeder system, he'd be free to go to a Catholic school in Bardstown or Louisville.

 

It appears that NKY will be using the Diocese as the territory.

This is what I'm assuming but what I was really interested in is would they be eligible at the public schools in Hardin County? As the rule is written I don't think that they would but I'm not sure.

 

The same question could apply to Oldham, Shelby, Bullitt or any other county that has parochial elementary schools but no Catholic High School.

In post 130, I posted the following....

 

Is this illegal recruiting? How would this be enforced by Prop 8 any differently than what is done now? To me, THIS IS THE RECRUITING DONE. How do you enforce this? Is it even illegal or immoral? I am not sure there is anything wrong with it but it is, in my opinion, how school's begin to pool talent. Through the players themselves recruiting their teammates off of AAU teams.

 

As I have repeatedly said, I believe there is a blatant unlevel playing field but it is rural/urban and not private/public. (Not that I ever expect anyone to really do anything about it. Us rednecks are just supposed to be quiet and take it. )

 

Just look at golf. Harrison County has one golf course and it is a private country club. If your parents don't have the approximately 1500 to 2000 dollars to join, you can't grow up playing golf in Harrison County. Now compare that to any of the Lexington schools that are situated around how many public courses?

 

 

So are you proposing separate golf championships based upon the number of public golf courses in a county? :laugh:

 

There are unlevel playing fields true, but the issue to me is whether those unlevel playing fields are caused by unfair reasons and whether you impose on parental choices of high school in order to try to level the playing field. There always has been and there always will be unlevel playing fields. Before weight lifting became in vogue, it was an unlevel field when farm boys, spending lots of time working in the field lifting lots of weight had an advantage over the city boys lifting nothing but their rear ends every day. It was unlevel, but was it unfair? I don't think so. Is it a level playing field that some schools decide to allow more volunteer or paid asst coaches? Probably not. Is it a level playing field when one school has a very organized and instructive youth league in their town, but another does not? Again, probably not. Is it a level playing field when more parents of one school can afford to hire professionals to train their kids or to send their kids to specialized camps? Again, probably not. There are a ton of factors that can result in an unlevel playing field. As I posted in another thread a long time ago, if the KHSAA looked at every variable that resulted in a real or perceived unlevel playing field, we'd have 250 (approx) different football classes in Ky. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge that, like life, everything nots fair and that to try and make the field level for all teams can only be accomplished (if ever, and probably not) if we totally limit and control all of those variables. That would severely impact the rights of parents, kids and schools to make the best decisions in my opinion. You want to keep the 7th and 8th graders at your high school give them reasons not to transfer and the whole problem causing Proposal 2 goes away.

 

And as for the redneck comment, my neck is about as red as anyones. If you had seen me yesterday down on my farm yesterday when I met Robert Novak, you'd agree that I'm a redneck.

So are you proposing separate golf championships based upon the number of public golf courses in a county? :laugh:

 

.

No, just using it to make a point.

So are you proposing separate golf championships based upon the number of public golf courses in a county? :laugh:

 

There are unlevel playing fields true, but the issue to me is whether those unlevel playing fields are caused by unfair reasons and whether you impose on parental choices of high school in order to try to level the playing field. There always has been and there always will be unlevel playing fields. Before weight lifting became in vogue, it was an unlevel field when farm boys, spending lots of time working in the field lifting lots of weight had an advantage over the city boys lifting nothing but their rear ends every day. It was unlevel, but was it unfair? I don't think so. Is it a level playing field that some schools decide to allow more volunteer or paid asst coaches? Probably not. Is it a level playing field when one school has a very organized and instructive youth league in their town, but another does not? Again, probably not. Is it a level playing field when more parents of one school can afford to hire professionals to train their kids or to send their kids to specialized camps? Again, probably not. There are a ton of factors that can result in an unlevel playing field. As I posted in another thread a long time ago, if the KHSAA looked at every variable that resulted in a real or perceived unlevel playing field, we'd have 250 (approx) different football classes in Ky. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge that, like life, everything nots fair and that to try and make the field level for all teams can only be accomplished (if ever, and probably not) if we totally limit and control all of those variables. That would severely impact the rights of parents, kids and schools to make the best decisions in my opinion. You want to keep the 7th and 8th graders at your high school give them reasons not to transfer and the whole problem causing Proposal 2 goes away.

For my county, that is easy. There are no other viable realistic educational choices for the parents besides homeschooling.

And there you run into the problem that the public schools are having with private schools. A rural school as Harrison County is cannot open it's borders outside the county limits of Harrison County. That is the only feeder system they can pull from.

 

Yet, LC from my understanding has a diocese from Pikeville to Frankfort, Berea to Georgetown. And that will be their feeder system.

 

I guess my real question is if the School systems can define any middle/grade school they want a feeder school, why doesn't a school like Harrison County declare every middle/grade school in the state a feeder school? Because Harrison is not an independent school system, are they restricted in who they can define as a feeder school? Can/should private schools or even open enrollment/independent schools define public schools feeder schools?