Here is Jeter article, regarding A-Rod, Torre and....

 

Jeter on A-Rod and Yankees

 

Jeter never calls Joe Torre "Joe." Its always "Mr. Torre."

I will respectfully disagree. The owners base their payroll on expected revenue. Where does the revenue come from? You and me through ticket sales or through us watching the YES network which allows the team to collect advertising revenue. So, its 100% on us as fans. We love the product so much that we continually pay the increasing ticket prices and continually watch the games on TV. "Players greed" is simply a byproduct of this. They see a very large pie , realize they're the reason there is a large pie, and then demand the pie. I completely get that.

 

Your point regarding teams moving to another market simply backs up what I'm saying. There will always be some city willing to pay the piper to have MLB.

 

IMO we cannot complain about baseball salaries or pricing when we're paying them.

 

The only thing we can complain about is how the money we're paying them is shared from team to team.

....:thumb: We disagree in the large picture but agree, on each is part of the problem.

 

Some cities, with larger population can absorb these exhorbanent salaries, simply because of the attendance numbers. If GABP only draws 20,000± a home game and Jacobs has 40,000±, than yes....salaries can be projected off attendance. At the same time, owners in these small market areas, want new stadiums with tax payers money, so they can sell luxury boxes, increase gate and maximize sales, to help underwrite these salaries or they will threaten/look to move to the larger market areas.

 

Can't lay the blame on the fans. If that's the case, the gasoline prices would have dropped much sooner, contracts wouldn't keep getting bigger, commercial costs would not be rising and aluminum bats would be reasonable....why, because we want them to be reasonably affordable but often they aren't. Which leaves two choices, either you do pay it or you don't....Free-Agency, greed in Owners and Players have driven the costs up.

 

Jeter never calls Joe Torre "Joe." Its always "Mr. Torre."

Read that and I thought when he said "Mr. T"....that the A-Team would be next....:lol:

Jeter never calls Joe Torre "Joe." Its always "Mr. Torre."

 

That's Jeter. Always showing respect.

....:thumb: We disagree in the large picture but agree, on each is part of the problem.

 

Some cities, with larger population can absorb these exhorbanent salaries, simply because of the attendance numbers. If GABP only draws 20,000± a home game and Jacobs has 40,000±, than yes....salaries can be projected off attendance. At the same time, owners in these small market areas, want new stadiums with tax payers money, so they can sell luxury boxes, increase gate and maximize sales, to help underwrite these salaries or they will threaten/look to move to the larger market areas.

 

Can't lay the blame on the fans. If that's the case, the gasoline prices would have dropped much sooner,

 

Apples and oranges.

 

contracts wouldn't keep getting bigger,

 

They're getting bigger because you and I keep watching and paying for tickets. We can't both wish the salaries to get smaller AND continue to pay for the product.

Apples and oranges.

 

They're getting bigger because you and I keep watching and paying for tickets. We can't both wish the salaries to get smaller AND continue to pay for the product.

Do honestly think, anyone is worth $125 million....and the residents of Texas, certainly didn't agree to pay for it, since their is no tax. It came from an Owner, who wanted to win and win quickly, results from greed.

 

Salary maximums, caps or whatever we want to call it, is long overdue in MLB and would help stop these ridiculous amounts. Most contracts are getting up-front or signing bonus money, while being back-loaded near the end of the contract, which almost always results in a trade but leaves teams in financial constraints or having to carry part of the salaries....

 

Players unions, free-agency and Owner greed to win, have been passed only by the Players greed, to "have". Television contracts, promotions and endorsements are negotiated for the superstar players and therefore, for the team they are currently on.

 

Can't blame the fans, for playing the prices of the products. If they don't, bring in the overnight trucks and move elsewhere...that's what Owners will do.

Do honestly think, anyone is worth $125 million.

 

If I'm an owner and I think signing a guy to a huge contract will increase the value of my franchise then I do it. Its a simple business decision.

 

...and the residents of Texas, certainly didn't agree to pay for it, since their is no tax. It came from an Owner, who wanted to win and win quickly, results from greed.

 

The owner signed A-Rod (or pick your favorite free agent) because his fans are clamoring for stars. They've told him already that they're going to show up . Heck, they showed up without A-Rod. You know they're now going to show up with him on their team. No owner is going to plan on losing money. They make all of the decisions based off of the the market. Its simple economics.

 

Unless you and I change our viewing/spending habits, the owners are going to continue to receive this money and spend it in large sums.

 

 

Salary maximums, caps or whatever we want to call it, is long overdue in MLB and would help stop these ridiculous amounts.

 

As I've stated previously, I agree.

 

 

 

Can't blame the fans, for playing the prices of the products. If they don't, bring in the overnight trucks and move elsewhere...that's what Owners will do.

 

...which only supports my claim. They KNOW that fans somewhere will pay it if the current city chooses not to. They're in the driver's seat in the world of "supply and demand."

If I'm an owner and I think signing a guy to a huge contract will increase the value of my franchise then I do it. Its a simple business decision.

 

...which only supports my claim. They KNOW that fans somewhere will pay it if the current city chooses not to. They're in the driver's seat in the world of "supply and demand."

Patrons pay for cyclical goods, daily and it usually what the market is dictating and not a result of them continuing, but they feel the need to have it. Same with sports.

 

When purchasing a house, the purchase does not set the price but rather has the option to pay or negotiate down. The price is predicated by the Owner, as directly related to what he thinks he can sell it for. You and I (the fans) have two choices, pay for it or not....because we choose do, is not us dictating the supply but rather not having the negotiation power, like we do with goods. Prices to high at one grocery, gas station, restaurant....go to another but prices too high at a professional sporting complex, "fans" get left out and Corporations move in, throwing money left and right. If not, move into larger populated areas, weed out the budget families and cater, to the big money, to help the "Greed" of all involved.

 

Don't blame patrons, because they pay the prices....the choice of cost, is not there own.

Patrons pay for cyclical goods, daily and it usually what the market is dictating and not a result of them continuing, but they feel the need to have it. Same with sports.

 

When purchasing a house, the purchase does not set the price but rather has the option to pay or negotiate down. The price is predicated by the Owner, as directly related to what he thinks he can sell it for. You and I (the fans) have two choices, pay for it or not....because we choose do, is not us dictating the supply but rather not having the negotiation power, like we do with goods. Prices to high at one grocery, gas station, restaurant....go to another but prices too high at a professional sporting complex, "fans" get left out and Corporations move in, throwing money left and right. If not, move into larger populated areas, weed out the budget families and cater, to the big money, to help the "Greed" of all involved.

 

Don't blame patrons, because they pay the prices....the choice of cost, is not there own.

 

I could be misreading you but it appears that we disagree and neither is going to concede.

I could be misreading you but it appears that we disagree and neither is going to concede.

In post #77, I agreed part of both, are the problems but the patron/fan, can't be blamed for A-Rod's and other exhorbanent salaries.

 

Professional teams do base salary structure of estimated revenue, from tickets, to corporate sponsors, to stadium income, vendor rentals, television and radio rights, tax breaks, merchandising, incentives, MLB shared revenue.....and much more. For example:

 

Ticket Sales = 2,000,000 tickets sold = $100,000,000 ($50 ticket price avg.)

Corporate Sponsors · 10 Corporations = $50,000,000 ($5 mil per sponsor)

TV/Radio Rights · Primary and Secondary Markets = $250,000

Stadium Income · Rentals, Businesses, Parking, etc... = $150,000

Merchandising · Clothing, hats, pennants, etc... = $250,000

Tax Break Incentives · Luxury Tax, City or County, possibly State = $5,000,000

MLB Revenue Sharing · "estimating here" = $20,000,000

 

= $175,650,000

 

....and from that, an Owner can determine how much/who gets what salary. Yes these numbers are high but my point being, the fans/patrons do not carry the burden for these prices but pay what the market dictates, if they choose to attend.

 

Here's a link, to MLB Teams and valuations

 

MLB Team Valuations

In post #77, I agreed part of both, are the problems but the patron/fan, can't be blamed for A-Rod's and other exhorbanent salaries.

 

Professional teams do base salary structure of estimated revenue, from tickets, to corporate sponsors, to stadium income, vendor rentals, television and radio rights, tax breaks, merchandising, incentives, MLB shared revenue.....and much more. For example:

 

Ticket Sales = 2,000,000 tickets sold = $100,000,000 ($50 ticket price avg.)

Corporate Sponsors · 10 Corporations = $50,000,000 ($5 mil per sponsor)

TV/Radio Rights · Primary and Secondary Markets = $250,000

Stadium Income · Rentals, Businesses, Parking, etc... = $150,000

Merchandising · Clothing, hats, pennants, etc... = $250,000

Tax Break Incentives · Luxury Tax, City or County, possibly State = $5,000,000

MLB Revenue Sharing · "estimating here" = $20,000,000

 

= $175,650,000

 

....and from that, an Owner can determine how much/who gets what salary. Yes these numbers are high but my point being, the fans/patrons do not carry the burden for these prices but pay what the market dictates, if they choose to attend.

 

Here's a link, to MLB Teams and valuations

 

MLB Team Valuations

 

At the risk of beating a dead horse, every item you list above is a derivative of fan interest and support. Every one of those line items would be smaller if fans put their foot down. We won't so we put up with high salaries.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, every item you list above is a derivative of fan interest and support. Every one of those line items would be smaller if fans put their foot down. We won't so we put up with high salaries.

You're right, we disagree....

 

Blaming the wrong entity here CSHS. If Free-Agency didn't exist, how could the exhorbanent salaries continue to escalate....players would continue with the team and more incentive based salaries, would exist.

 

Teams would be more on a even playing field, in the small market areas. Now players don't care as much about winning, as they do signing the large contracts (see Soriano)....its about show me the money or I'll find someone who will.

 

Because someone pays for a ticket, at "X" price does not mean the result will be an increase continually, it means that is reflective of some ownership who cares only about winning and find "one" means of passing on the cost.

 

Give a team only $50 million dollars, to operate and pay salaries...what you get, is relatively low salaries and affordable ticket prices. Give a team $150 million dollars to operate, via larger population, corporate sponsors, revenue sharing, etc....the salaries go up and not because the fans are paying for them.

You're right, we disagree....

 

Blaming the wrong entity here CSHS. If Free-Agency didn't exist, how could the exhorbanent salaries continue to escalate....players would continue with the team and more incentive based salaries, would exist.

 

Teams would be more on a even playing field, in the small market areas. Now players don't care as much about winning, as they do signing the large contracts (see Soriano)....its about show me the money or I'll find someone who will.

 

Because someone pays for a ticket, at "X" price does not mean the result will be an increase continually, it means that is reflective of some ownership who cares only about winning and find "one" means of passing on the cost.

 

Give a team only $50 million dollars, to operate and pay salaries...what you get, is relatively low salaries and affordable ticket prices. Give a team $150 million dollars to operate, via larger population, corporate sponsors, revenue sharing, etc....the salaries go up and not because the fans are paying for them.

 

You seem to have a couple of different arguments going here.

 

While you may be arguing that free agency has driven up salaries (agreed), I will continue to argue that those salaries are available to be offered because YOU and I will still watch. Since the owners know you and I will still watch, they know what revenue is coming in and, thus, can afford to pay these seemingly exhorbitant salaries.

 

Ticket sales are but one component of revenue. EVERY component is a function of the fans willingness to watch and attend games WITHOUT putting their foot down and saying "enough is enough." We're afraid to do that because the owners might take their product elsewhere. That right there tells you who is to blame. Its us. If you're bothered by the salaries, take a stand a quit watching. Tell a friend to do the same and have him tell a friend. Big things can start with one small step, right?

 

Secondly, you argue for a salary cap which everyone and their brother agrees with (including me).

 

We seem to be in a "chicken vs the egg" debate here.

.....So, its 100% on us as fans. We love the product so much that we continually pay the increasing ticket prices and continually watch the games on TV. "Players greed" is simply a byproduct of this.

Your argument is "fans only", which was what started our discussion.....

 

In post #77, I agreed part of both, are the problems but the patron/fan, can't be blamed for A-Rod's and other exhorbanent salaries.

 

Professional teams do base salary structure of estimated revenue, from tickets, to corporate sponsors, to stadium income, vendor rentals, television and radio rights, tax breaks, merchandising, incentives, MLB shared revenue.....and much more. For example:

 

Ticket Sales = 2,000,000 tickets sold = $100,000,000 ($50 ticket price avg.)

Corporate Sponsors · 10 Corporations = $50,000,000 ($5 mil per sponsor)

TV/Radio Rights · Primary and Secondary Markets = $250,000

Stadium Income · Rentals, Businesses, Parking, etc... = $150,000

Merchandising · Clothing, hats, pennants, etc... = $250,000

Tax Break Incentives · Luxury Tax, City or County, possibly State = $5,000,000

MLB Revenue Sharing · "estimating here" = $20,000,000

 

= $175,650,000

 

....and from that, an Owner can determine how much/who gets what salary. Yes these numbers are high but my point being, the fans/patrons do not carry the burden for these prices but pay what the market dictates, if they choose to attend.

 

Here's a link, to MLB Teams and valuations

 

MLB Team Valuations

My argument, that salaries are a result of the fans and fans only, is NOT mine. Stadium sizes, population, merchandising and tickets sales will bring in more revenue in larger market areas, than smaller markets.

 

Greed, free-agency and "show me the money", are the problem and you won't convince me otherwise....:thumb: As for me not watching or telling others, that is not going to solve any problem, which is part of my contention that corporate sponsors and revenue sharing, will continue to pour money into the pockets of owners, until salary caps and spending limits are established.

 

Salaries like A-Rod's and what Soriano, plus others are getting are ruining Baseball, breaking teams apart and over paying value, to some not even close to being worthy....giving a player $9 mil per year, for 8 pitching wins is not value and its happening across the board.