The point being at some point men with guns would show up as enforcers.

 

If he assaulted someone I'd hope they would.

@halfback20

 

While we are on this topic I would also like to know what exactly a passenger is violating when they refuse to comply and get off a plane. Is it a law? And if it is a law, how come non-law enforcement officers are the ones doing the enforcing? Additionally, I would like to see and understand the legal authority that grants the "Security Guards" the right to enforce Federal Law and put their hands on someone and use that level of force?

 

You can research those questions as good as i can.

@halfback20

 

While we are on this topic I would also like to know what exactly a passenger is violating when they refuse to comply and get off a plane. Is it a law? And if it is a law, how come non-law enforcement officers are the ones doing the enforcing? Additionally, I would like to see and understand the legal authority that grants the "Security Guards" the right to enforce Federal Law and put their hands on someone and use that level of force?

 

Those are the questions that will be asked in litigation. What gave security guards the right to enforce the law? What gave them the right to use force?

If he assaulted someone I'd hope they would.

 

Citizens that put their hands on other citizens run the risk of being assaulted.

You can research those questions as good as i can.

 

I wasn't asking you or anyone to do the work, I am just saying they are additional questions I have about this process.

Those are the questions that will be asked in litigation. What gave security guards the right to enforce the law? What gave them the right to use force?

 

They are probably included under some Federal Umbrella giving them the authority but again I would like to see the whole process broken down step by step.

Citizens that put their hands on other citizens run the risk of being assaulted.

 

People that refuse to leave a private business when told to do so run the risk of being forced to leave.

I wasn't asking you or anyone to do the work, I am just saying they are additional questions I have about this process.

 

Fly Rights | Department of Transportation

People that refuse to leave a private business when told to do so run the risk of being forced to leave.

 

I think this case is more complex than that but sure. Bouncers in a bar come to mind.

Fly Rights | Department of Transportation

 

From that link:

 

Involuntary Bumping

DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. The amount depends on the price of their ticket and the length of the delay:

 

• If you are bumped involuntarily and the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to get you to your final destination (including later connections) within one hour of your original scheduled arrival time, there is no compensation.
  
• If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum.
  
• If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1350 maximum).
  
• If your ticket does not show a fare (for example, a frequent-flyer award ticket or a ticket issued by a consolidator), your denied boarding compensation is based on the lowest cash, check or credit card payment charged for a ticket in the same class of service (e.g., coach, first class) on that flight.
  
• You always get to keep your original ticket and use it on another flight. If you choose to make your own arrangements, you can request an "involuntary refund" for the ticket for the flight you were bumped from. The denied boarding compensation is essentially a payment for your inconvenience.
  
• If you paid for optional services on your original flight (e.g., seat selection, checked baggage) and you did not receive those services on your substitute flight or were required to pay a second time, the airline that bumped you must refund those payments to you.
  

Like all rules, however, there are a few conditions and exceptions:

 

• To be eligible for compensation, you must have a confirmed reservation. A written confirmation issued by the airline or an authorized agent or reservation service qualifies you in this regard even if the airline can't find your reservation in the computer, as long as you didn't cancel your reservation or miss a reconfirmation deadline.
  
• Each airline has a check-in deadline, which is the amount of time before scheduled departure that you must present yourself to the airline at the airport. For domestic flights most carriers require you to be at the departure gate between 10 minutes and 30 minutes before scheduled departure, but some deadlines can be an hour or longer. Check-in deadlines on international flights can be as much as three hours before scheduled departure time. Some airlines may simply require you to be at the ticket/baggage counter by this time; most, however, require that you get all the way to the boarding area. Some may have deadlines at both locations. If you miss the check-in deadline, you may have lost your reservation and your right to compensation if the flight is oversold.
  

As noted above, no compensation is due if the airline arranges substitute transportation which is scheduled to arrive at your destination within one hour of your originally scheduled arrival time.

If the airline must substitute a smaller plane for the one it originally planned to use, the carrier isn't required to pay people who are bumped as a result. In addition, on flights using aircraft with 30 through 60 passenger seats, compensation is not required if you were bumped due to safety-related aircraft weight or balance constraints.

The rules do not apply to charter flights, or to scheduled flights operated with planes that hold fewer than 30 passengers. They don't apply to international flights inbound to the United States, although some airlines on these routes may follow them voluntarily. Also, if you are flying between two foreign cities -- from Paris to Rome, for example -- these rules will not apply. The European Commission has a rule on bumpings that occur in an EC country; ask the airline for details, or go to ]Request Error.

Airlines set their own "boarding priorities" -- the order in which they will bump different categories of passengers in an oversale situation. When a flight is oversold and there are not enough volunteers, some airlines bump passengers with the lowest fares first. Others bump the last passengers to check in. Once you have purchased your ticket, the most effective way to reduce the risk of being bumped is to get to the airport early. For passengers in the same fare class the last passengers to check in are usually the first to be bumped, even if they have met the check-in deadline. Allow extra time; assume that the roads are backed up, the parking lot is full, and there is a long line at the check-in counter.

Airlines may offer free tickets or dollar-amount vouchers for future flights in place of a check for denied boarding compensation. However, if you are bumped involuntarily you have the right to insist on a check if that is your preference. Once you cash the check (or accept the free flight), you will probably lose the ability to pursue more money from the airline later on. However, if being bumped costs you more money than the airline will pay you at the airport, you can try to negotiate a higher settlement with their complaint department. If this doesn't work, you usually have 30 days from the date on the check to decide if you want to accept the amount of the check. You are always free to decline the check (e.g., not cash it) and take the airline to court to try to obtain more compensation. DOT's denied boarding regulation spells out the airlines' minimum obligation to people they bump involuntarily. Finally, don't be a "no-show." If you are holding confirmed reservations you don't plan to use, notify the airline. If you don't, they will cancel all onward or return reservations on your trip.

Fly Rights | Department of Transportation

 

Did you see anything at that link about legal authority to arrest/detain/etc?

 

And while I am on this again, if the passenger is breaking a law it should have been a law enforcement officer enforcing the law. Furthermore, if it was a law, the law enforcement officers should have come onto the plane and arrested/cuffed him right there and walked/carried him out.

 

The more I think about this the more I think it is a comedy of errors.

Did you see anything at that link about legal authority to arrest/detain/etc?

 

And while I am on this again, if the passenger is breaking a law it should have been a law enforcement officer enforcing the law. Furthermore, if it was a law, the law enforcement officers should have come onto the plane and arrested/cuffed him right there and walked/carried him out.

 

The more I think about this the more I think it is a comedy of errors.

So you're cool if he became a security issue for other passengers to let him be for the time that it took law enforcement to arrive? Just to be clear what you're saying.

So you're cool if he became a security issue for other passengers to let him be for the time that it took law enforcement to arrive? Just to be clear what you're saying.

 

Was he a security issue before "United" approached him with an ultimatum?

 

If not, that's more United and many others will have to answer for.

Was he a security issue before "United" approached him with an ultimatum?

 

If not, that's more United and many others will have to answer for.

Ok, just for discussion's sake, let's just start at the point United approached him. That part is over. Now he becomes a blooming idiot. What do you do? Wait on LEO? Or restrain and remove him and turn him over to LEO to avoid possible danger to other passengers?

Ok, just for discussion's sake, let's just start at the point United approached him. That part is over. Now he becomes a blooming idiot. What do you do? Wait on LEO? Or restrain and remove him and turn him over to LEO to avoid possible danger to other passengers?

 

From the brief transcript posted that's not the case. Apparently he was having a discussion with a non-law enforcement officer about being taken to jail if he didn't comply.

 

Since a law was going to have to be enforced to remove him it was the duty of the non-law enforcement officer to de-escalate the situation until the proper authorities arrived.

 

Instead of them jerking him out of his seat, bashing his face, and dragging him out the proper move would have been to back off, contain, and wait.