I feel like a traitor for even making this next statement, seeing as how UofL made their rise to where they are, but it should be addressed.

 

Houston plays in the American. To assume Herman will automatically have great success as a HC at a Power 5 school is premature at the least.

I'm sure FSU and Oklahoma completely agree with your statement...

I'm sure FSU and Oklahoma completely agree with your statement...

 

He had months to prepare for both.

 

Not trying to diminish those wins, but those aren't good examples if you're trying to argue he would definitely have sustained success at a P5 school.

Um, Louisville was coming off 6-6, 5-7 and 4-8 seasons consecutively when Strong got there. Won two Big East Championships and a Sugar Bowl in his four seasons. Let's not act like he walked into a great situation at Louisville.

 

And before that Louisville was playing and winning a bcs game. So let's not act like the Louisville program was a program that had been bad for a long time without any recent success. It has been a long time since Houston was relevant and a top team, and Herman Turned them right around. A year after winning a title calling plays with a third string qb.

 

So yes based off the point he made, there is a little but more to go on that Herman will continue to do well after his qb leaves.

And before that Louisville was playing and winning a bcs game. So let's not act like the Louisville program was a program that had been bad for a long time without any recent success. It has been a long time since Houston was relevant and a top team, and Herman Turned them right around. A year after winning a title calling plays with a third string qb.

 

So yes based off the point he made, there is a little but more to go on that Herman will continue to do well after his qb leaves.

 

I think Herman is a great coach and I agree he will probably do well after Ward (if he's still in Houston). But questioning whether or not Ward plays a big factor in how good he looks is more than fair.

Exactly. We simply don't know and won't until Ward is gone.

 

Part of the reason he has became a great qb with these numbers is because of Herman. Herman showed at OSU too he can take a qb and make him great right away. Braxton Miller gets hurt, no problem we put JT Barrett in with no experience and he does great. JT Barrett gets hurt and they have to use a third string qb in Jones in the Big 10 championship and in the playoffs. No problem Jones looks great and they win a title.

 

Herman had a track record of offenses still doing well no matter the qb. Strong is a defensive Coach, so his track record of being able to still do well and develop qbs after his first round qb he had left is non existent. He is a defensive Coach who's defenses struggle currently.

 

So with Herman yes it's easier to assume he will still do well after Ward because he can develop great qbs. To keep doing well on the defensive side is the question.

I think Herman is a great coach and I agree he will probably do well after Ward (if he's still in Houston). But questioning whether or not Ward plays a big factor in how good he looks is more than fair.

 

I would understand that. However the fact that he has shown even during his time at OSU that he can basically take a qb with very few practice reps and go win championships like he did with Jones. Shows me that he is a coach who will always have a great qb because of his ability to coach qbs up. Not to mention top qbs see the work he has done and will want to play for him.

I think Swamp's point is what would Herman be able to do without a great QB.

What has Jimbo been able to do without a great QB? Yet he continues to be thrown around as one of the top coaches. To be fair Saban is the only one that jumps to mind that has gotten it done with average QBs.

You couldn't be more wrong. Ward was a converted wide receiver and Herman turned him into a star.

 

Greg Ward was the 3rd best QB in the state of Texas coming out of high school. He did play wide receiver full time his sophomore year in high school, but he was not a wide receiver coming out of high school. He was recruited and signed as a QB. He played wide receiver in 2013 and 2014 sparingly. Ward played more as a QB in both years.

 

He was hardly a converted wide receiver.

 

Under Tony Levine ...

 

2013, he played in 10 games his freshman year, passed for 19/29 for 310 yards passing, 45 carries for 176 yard rushing, and 10 receptions for 95 yards.

 

In 2014, he started 8 games at QB in 2014, including a 45 pass attempt game at Cincinnati, the final game of the regular season, and the bowl game. Wards stats were 177/263 for 2010 yards, 118 carries for 573 yards, and 13 receptions for 139 yards.

 

He has gotten better, though. I can't deny that.

 

Saying a great QB is covering up his weaknesses as a coach is a bad argument. He is the one making these QB's great not the other way around.

 

I never said that anything is being covered up, nor am I making predictions. I don't know if he has weaknesses. I'm simply saying I won't know if weaknesses exist until he has a different QB. His performance as an OC is not deniable. His performance as a Head Coach is in question. 2 different positions. Johnny 5 needs data.

 

He did it at Ohio State too. Herman developed Braxton Miller from a guy who just ran around all over the place his freshman year into a Heisman trophy caliber QB and developed Barrett and Cardale Jones into National Championship QB's. The guy is legit.

 

Let me get this straight.

 

So you are saying the HC Urban Meyer had nothing to do with how great Miller, Barrett, or Jones were? It was all Tom Herman, the OC?

 

And now you are saying that the OC/QB coach at Houston, Major Applewhite, has nothing to do with how much better Ward has gotten? It's all the HC, Herman?

Greg Ward was the 3rd best QB in the state of Texas coming out of high school. He did play wide receiver full time his sophomore year in high school, but he was not a wide receiver coming out of high school. He was recruited and signed as a QB. He played wide receiver in 2013 and 2014 sparingly. Ward played more as a QB in both years.

 

He was hardly a converted wide receiver.

 

Under Tony Levine ...

 

2013, he played in 10 games his freshman year, passed for 19/29 for 310 yards passing, 45 carries for 176 yard rushing, and 10 receptions for 95 yards.

 

In 2014, he started 8 games at QB in 2014, including a 45 pass attempt game at Cincinnati, the final game of the regular season, and the bowl game. Wards stats were 177/263 for 2010 yards, 118 carries for 573 yards, and 13 receptions for 139 yards.

 

He has gotten better, though. I can't deny that.

 

 

 

I never said that anything is being covered up, nor am I making predictions. I don't know if he has weaknesses. I'm simply saying I won't know if weaknesses exist until he has a different QB. His performance as an OC is not deniable. His performance as a Head Coach is in question. 2 different positions. Johnny 5 needs data.

 

 

 

Let me get this straight.

 

So you are saying the HC Urban Meyer had nothing to do with how great Miller, Barrett, or Jones were? It was all Tom Herman, the OC?

 

And now you are saying that the OC/QB coach at Houston, Major Applewhite, has nothing to do with how much better Ward has gotten? It's all the HC, Herman?

I am most definitely not saying that Urban had nothing to do with it. Urban had a lot to do with it. But I'm saying Tom Herman did a heck of a job. Just listening to the way his former players talk about him and the respect they give him as well as Urban show how great of a coach he is IMO. Obviously all he has done at Houston says he wins a lot too. So I think Hermans praise is very well deserved IMO.