Gotcha, jpa. However, I suspect the "bathroom" issue is destined for many more rounds of pugilistic debate on this forum.

Pugilistic would be a mild statement. They need to go into a female area and get decked by some angry females who guard their privacy. This would not have stood for long in my 1960's 1-8 elementary school. My class had about 12-15 hard working, hay baling and tobacco growing young women. We did not get our strength from a gym we earned it on our parents farms. I still value my body and privacy, and this half baked idea would never have begun. I sat and suffered fools lightly when this all began thinking common sense would rule it out. But I will no longer be politically correct. Our children need to grow up knowing exactly what God made them. Sometimes things do get mixed up, I knew a set of twins, she acted masculine and he was very effeminate. My friends, no one in my circle bullied them.

And that's what I mean when I say I can't change the sex God gave me any more than I can change my German hands or the color of my skin or my height, I would love to be about 5'10". Life doesn't work that way you take what you get and need to improve it through healthy eating, education and understanding others and especially the less fortunate. Do today's teachers get special education emphasis on genders? I read somewhere in the last week that there are 21 gender classifications. People this is insanity.

Pugilistic would be a mild statement. They need to go into a female area and get decked by some angry females who guard their privacy. This would not have stood for long in my 1960's 1-8 elementary school. My class had about 12-15 hard working, hay baling and tobacco growing young women. We did not get our strength from a gym we earned it on our parents farms. I still value my body and privacy, and this half baked idea would never have begun. I sat and suffered fools lightly when this all began thinking common sense would rule it out. But I will no longer be politically correct. Our children need to grow up knowing exactly what God made them. Sometimes things do get mixed up, I knew a set of twins, she acted masculine and he was very effeminate. My friends, no one in my circle bullied them.

And that's what I mean when I say I can't change the sex God gave me any more than I can change my German hands or the color of my skin or my height, I would love to be about 5'10". Life doesn't work that way you take what you get and need to improve it through healthy eating, education and understanding others and especially the less fortunate. Do today's teachers get special education emphasis on genders? I read somewhere in the last week that there are 21 gender classifications. People this is insanity.

 

I was told NOT to date girls like you... oh wait... I read that wrong. I thought you wrote, "tobacco-chewing young women." Never mind.

 

I am with you on the need for common sense regarding this issue. IMO, it is in short supply.

I was told NOT to date girls like you... oh wait... I read that wrong. I thought you wrote, "tobacco-chewing young women." Never mind.

 

I am with you on the need for common sense regarding this issue. IMO, it is in short supply.

What a lousy attempt at humor, no I do not suffer fools lightly. My brothers and I worked extremely hard to help our parents pay for two really good farms. Well son before you attempt to buffoon me, pick up a square hay bale or set 28 acres of tobacco with a jobber or try handing off the wagon and up into the barn about 28 acres of tobacco ( that is about 84,000 pounds and I was always on the wagon touched nearly every stick unless Dad helped me clear room for me to walk on the edge.) And that is one hard day's work. And no I never smoked in my life. Or chewed.Won't comment on the ,your nose in the air comment about HARD WORKING COUNTRY GIRLS, WHO MANY OF US MISSED THE FIRST THREE OR FOUR WEEKS OF SCHOOL. Ever walk into the classroom behind 3 weeks in Solid Geometry and Trig., Physics and tons of English and Literature and needing A's in all to stay in Beta Club, Student Council and Cheerleading? My Dad had a terrible heart attack when I was in 5 th grade. We got responsible real quick. Yes, I know your comment was made in jest except it carried a little bit of condescending attitude. P.S. My husband of 48 years knew how hard I lived and worked and he likes my muscles and strength. Guess it's your loss to have misjudged an entire group of wonderful, accomplished and educated women.

What a lousy attempt at humor, no I do not suffer fools lightly. My brothers and I worked extremely hard to help our parents pay for two really good farms. Well son before you attempt to buffoon me, pick up a square hay bale or set 28 acres of tobacco with a jobber or try handing off the wagon and up into the barn about 28 acres of tobacco ( that is about 84,000 pounds and I was always on the wagon touched nearly every stick unless Dad helped me clear room for me to walk on the edge.) And that is one hard day's work. And no I never smoked in my life. Or chewed.Won't comment on the ,your nose in the air comment about HARD WORKING COUNTRY GIRLS, WHO MANY OF US MISSED THE FIRST THREE OR FOUR WEEKS OF SCHOOL. Ever walk into the classroom behind 3 weeks in Solid Geometry and Trig., Physics and tons of English and Literature and needing A's in all to stay in Beta Club, Student Council and Cheerleading? My Dad had a terrible heart attack when I was in 5 th grade. We got responsible real quick. Yes, I know your comment was made in jest except it carried a little bit of condescending attitude. P.S. My husband of 48 years knew how hard I lived and worked and he likes my muscles and strength. Guess it's your loss to have misjudged an entire group of wonderful, accomplished and educated women.

 

Somehow I offended you which couldn't have been further from my intention. Listen, I am from farm country myself and am VERY proud of my rural upbringing. I am forever grateful for my heritage as a farm family, though I do not now farm. The family farm was the backbone of America. I did all of the same things you did with the exception of work in tobacco fields--didn't have them up north. I have been told that working in the tobacco fields is hard work and labor intensive. I married a country girl so I didn't say anything with a condescending attitude toward rural people or country girls. You misunderstood me. My comment had to do with the old saying "I don't drink, smoke, or chew or go with girls that do" and it was said in a light-hearted way. And I didn't accuse you of chewing tobacco but I clearly stated i mistook you for saying that you did (which was tongue-in-cheek so I could make a joke). I will agree that it may be taken as a "lousy attempt at humor" (that is always a matter of opinion) but I deny that I was making fun of you or your upbringing since mine was somewhat similar.

 

You also stated:

Won't comment on the ,your nose in the air comment about HARD WORKING COUNTRY GIRLS, WHO MANY OF US MISSED THE FIRST THREE OR FOUR WEEKS OF SCHOOL. Ever walk into the classroom behind 3 weeks in Solid Geometry and Trig., Physics and tons of English and Literature and needing A's in all to stay in Beta Club, Student Council and Cheerleading?

 

Again, my comment had to do with a play on tobacco-growing and tobacco-chewing. Had nothing to do with being farmers or hardworking. Your reaction is over the top.

 

My Dad had a terrible heart attack when I was in 5 th grade. We got responsible real quick.

 

I am sorry about your Dad.

 

Yes, I know your comment was made in jest except it carried a little bit of condescending attitude.

 

There was no condescension. I thought you and I were on the same page about this particular topic and may other topics discussed on BGP and had no idea you would be offended by an offhanded comment. I thought you may appreciate a bit of humor.

 

P.S. My husband of 48 years knew how hard I lived and worked and he likes my muscles and strength. Guess it's your loss to have misjudged an entire group of wonderful, accomplished and educated women.

 

I did not judge an entire group of people or even one solitary individual. So it appears that you are the one who has misjudged another.

 

I am guilty of a lack of judgment, however. I misjudged that you would appreciate an attempt at humor. And I misjudged that you would take it in the way it was intended rather than seeing it as a jab at your upbringing.

 

I will also confess that I may have misjudged another aspect of this thing as well. I misjudged the humor in my comment. As you say, it may have been "a lousy attempt at humor." But it was not an attempt to belittle you or rural people.

 

I do seek your forgiveness for being insensitive with my comment for it did hit you the wrong way. But it was not intended in the way you took it. It was an offhand comment, which means without much thought or planning.

 

I hope we can be reconciled.

Edited August 19, 201610 yr by oldgrappler

Somehow I offended you which couldn't have been further from my intention. Listen, I am from farm country myself and am VERY proud of my rural upbringing. I am forever grateful for my heritage as a farm family, though I do not now farm. The family farm was the backbone of America. I did all of the same things you did with the exception of work in tobacco fields--didn't have them up north. I have been told that working in the tobacco fields is hard work and labor intensive. I married a country girl so I didn't say anything with a condescending attitude toward rural people or country girls. You misunderstood me. My comment had to do with the old saying "I don't drink, smoke, or chew or go with girls that do" and it was said in a light-hearted way. And I didn't accuse you of chewing tobacco but I clearly stated i mistook you for saying that you did (which was tongue-in-cheek so I could make a joke). I will agree that it may be taken as a "lousy attempt at humor" (that is always a matter of opinion) but I deny that I was making fun of you or your upbringing since mine was somewhat similar.

 

You also stated:

Won't comment on the ,your nose in the air comment about HARD WORKING COUNTRY GIRLS, WHO MANY OF US MISSED THE FIRST THREE OR FOUR WEEKS OF SCHOOL. Ever walk into the classroom behind 3 weeks in Solid Geometry and Trig., Physics and tons of English and Literature and needing A's in all to stay in Beta Club, Student Council and Cheerleading?

 

Again, my comment had to do with a play on tobacco-growing and tobacco-chewing. Had nothing to do with being farmers or hardworking. Your reaction is over the top.

 

My Dad had a terrible heart attack when I was in 5 th grade. We got responsible real quick.

 

I am sorry about your Dad.

 

Yes, I know your comment was made in jest except it carried a little bit of condescending attitude.

 

There was no condescension. I thought you and I were on the same page about this particular topic and may other topics discussed on BGP and had no idea you would be offended by an offhanded comment. I thought you may appreciate a bit of humor.

 

P.S. My husband of 48 years knew how hard I lived and worked and he likes my muscles and strength. Guess it's your loss to have misjudged an entire group of wonderful, accomplished and educated women.

 

I did not judge an entire group of people or even one solitary individual. So it appears that you are the one who has misjudged another.

 

I am guilty of a lack of judgment, however. I misjudged that you would appreciate an attempt at humor. And I misjudged that you would take it in the way it was intended rather than seeing it as a jab at your upbringing.

 

I will also confess that I may have misjudged another aspect of this thing as well. I misjudged the humor in my comment. As you say, it may have been "a lousy attempt at humor." But it was not an attempt to belittle you or rural people.

 

I do seek your forgiveness for being insensitive with my comment for it did hit you the wrong way. But it was not intended in the way you took it. It was an offhand comment, which means without much thought or planning.

 

I hope we can be reconciled.

 

I accept your apology but as you can read, I defend the manner in which my parents raised us. Those were a couple of very hard years after my Dad's first attack. And we had to watch him if we were in the field. He lived until 1989, a testament to how strong and healthy his foundation was. Sorry, I should have taken the humor of your comment. I've just heard so many hillbilly and farmer's daughter jokes. Tobacco chewing or smoking are huge subjects with me. Have lost too many brothers and sisters and my father in law to cancer, so I'm really OCD on that subject. I'm sorry I am so sensitive. Papaw calls me on that. Yes, Friends?

We're good, SM. Believe it or not, I was teased for being country and a hick and talking funny when I was in high school so no offense was intended.

 

Thanks for taking the olive branch.

Edited August 20, 201610 yr by oldgrappler
word choice

Pugilistic would be a mild statement. They need to go into a female area and get decked by some angry females who guard their privacy. This would not have stood for long in my 1960's 1-8 elementary school. My class had about 12-15 hard working, hay baling and tobacco growing young women. We did not get our strength from a gym we earned it on our parents farms. I still value my body and privacy, and this half baked idea would never have begun. I sat and suffered fools lightly when this all began thinking common sense would rule it out. But I will no longer be politically correct. Our children need to grow up knowing exactly what God made them. Sometimes things do get mixed up, I knew a set of twins, she acted masculine and he was very effeminate. My friends, no one in my circle bullied them.

And that's what I mean when I say I can't change the sex God gave me any more than I can change my German hands or the color of my skin or my height, I would love to be about 5'10". Life doesn't work that way you take what you get and need to improve it through healthy eating, education and understanding others and especially the less fortunate. Do today's teachers get special education emphasis on genders? I read somewhere in the last week that there are 21 gender classifications. People this is insanity.

 

And when I was growing up, there were 2...I need to see the list...insanity is correct!

If you are really interested in learning about gender classification, you might check out this page: Intersex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

There are certainly more than two gender classifications.

And when I was growing up, there were 2...I need to see the list...insanity is correct!

 

And there is still only two........:thumb:

For all of you 100% straight, 100% male, or 100% female folks out there. Everything from your standpoint would make perfect "common sense" if everyone in the world was 100% straight, 100% male, or 100% female, but in reality they're not.

 

Our present generation is only recently coming from the ashes of centuries where if you weren't 100% straight, 100% male, or 100% female you would do whatever you could to hide this fact, and not live as you truly were because of the persecution, prejudice, physical violence, ridicule, bullying and even death you might've been subjected to by the 100% straight, 100% male, or 100% females who didn't have the knowledge to understand this reality, nor had society and religion before more recently ever aimed to educate the majority of these realities, all the while perpetrating the myth that any of these realities were a product of misguided "choices" by demented sinful abominable whack-o humans.

 

Considering all along that this has been your perception because of the misinformation you had been offered in your lifetime, it only stands to reason that it is hard for you to swallow these realities as realities, and your knee-jerk response very understandably so thinks that the world has gone mad for coming around to accept and understand these realities.

 

Truth is, is that these realities have always been in existence, but have been perpetually swept under the carpet and tagged in such a way by society and religion that has perpetrated disgust, and justification for persecution instead of understanding.

 

Because this is still all very new to you, regardless of the fact that it has been a reality forever, it's understandable that you can't accept and understand it, but because so many can't understand is no reason to remain uninformed and unknowledgeable of these true realities.

 

I'll assume that most of you consider yourself good people, and I've no doubt that you are, who wouldn't want to see anyone falsely persecuted and shoved back into the shadows for something that is a natural reality of humanity. I'll assume too that if there's a truth about these realities that can be offered to you to provide enlightenment that you'd rather be enlightened other than being kept in the dark.

 

Because the world is finally and only recently coming around to understanding these realities it would also stand to reason that adjustments of what we consider "Just the way it's always been" are also inevitable, even if for now to you they seem entirely nuts.

 

Throughout history the world has conducted itself as if everyone was 100% straight, 100% male, and 100% female, but we know that this is not truly the case.

 

Though it is understandable that people can't just immediately do an about face and accept and understand these realities, it would be helpful, as the good people that you are, if you could become all the wiser and come around to understand that as long as folks who are apart of these realities are continued to be misunderstood, that this misunderstanding leads only to prejudice, persecution, and all the other ugly things that they've been subjected to for centuries.

 

You can be apart of our culture that helps to perpetrate understanding and justice for all, or you can stay where you are and do the opposite.

 

From where you've been, it's completely understandable that you are where you are, but now that you've been enlightened with knowledge of things you previously didn't understand, if things work like they might when people become enlightened, they gain a new understanding, and with it an acceptance for realities that they once didn't comprehend as being a reality.

Edited August 21, 201610 yr by B-Ball-fan

If you are really interested in learning about gender classification, you might check out this page: Intersex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

There are certainly more than two gender classifications.

To go along with this, here are some questions:

 

1) A person has both male and female genitalia. Which if the "two" sexes are they?

2) A person has both male and female inner reproductive organs? Again, which of the "two" are they?

3) Instead of being XY or XX genetically, a person is XXY. Which of the "two" are they?

To go along with this, here are some questions:

 

1) A person has both male and female genitalia. Which if the "two" sexes are they?

2) A person has both male and female inner reproductive organs? Again, which of the "two" are they?

3) Instead of being XY or XX genetically, a person is XXY. Which of the "two" are they?

 

But is this what we are talking about in the OP? I understand that there are individuals who do not have a clearly identifiable sex. This is an abnormality, an anomoly, if you will. It is recognized and each case is probably different depending on the extent of the abnormality.

 

But what the OP is talking about is people who have a clearly identified sex, whose every cell identifies the person with that sex and yet "feels" that he or she should have been born the opposite sex and wants to be identified as the opposite sex. This is different than someone who has an ambiguous sex assignment at birth. The former person wants society to validate their feelings or their psychological state of mind and begin to identify them as the opposite of what their biology and chromosomes say they are. Until 2013 this was a recognized disorder. Now it is called Disphoria by the psychological manual. Was the change made because of political pressure or did the understanding among psychologists actually change? Psychology being a very inexact science to begin with.

But is this what we are talking about in the OP? I understand that there are individuals who do not have a clearly identifiable sex. This is an abnormality, an anomoly, if you will. It is recognized and each case is probably different depending on the extent of the abnormality.

 

But what the OP is talking about is people who have a clearly identified sex, whose every cell identifies the person with that sex and yet "feels" that he or she should have been born the opposite sex and wants to be identified as the opposite sex. This is different than someone who has an ambiguous sex assignment at birth. The former person wants society to validate their feelings or their psychological state of mind and begin to identify them as the opposite of what their biology and chromosomes say they are. Until 2013 this was a recognized disorder. Now it is called Disphoria by the psychological manual. Was the change made because of political pressure or did the understanding among psychologists actually change? Psychology being a very inexact science to begin with.

My point is that even physically, the question of gender isn't binary. Perhaps it isn't binary from a psychological perspective, either.

 

It's easy for some to say, "well, in my day, there were only two sexes," but in reality, that's not true.

I can't agree with this. Sex is binary. In the event that there is ambiguity in the sex organs at birth it is the result of a deformity. We don't normalize deformity with other body parts. We recognize that something has gone wrong. Same with the sex organs. Sex is binary.

I can't agree with this. Sex is binary. In the event that there is ambiguity in the sex organs at birth it is the result of a deformity. We don't normalize deformity with other body parts. We recognize that something has gone wrong. Same with the sex organs. Sex is binary.

So, back to my original question. If you are born with both male and female genitalia, which of the two are you?