At this point it is Johnson for me. Could have been influenced greatly by a home run of a VP pick by either Trump or Hilary even. Don't care for either in the least. Trump especially could have influenced me greatly with his VP pick. Didn't know Pence and now that do, don't care for him. If election was tommorow would be casting my vote for Gary Johnson

As far as the sentiment goes " stick it to both parties " nothing could be more inaccurate - Trump has already stuck it to the R's . He is entirely out of the ring of top shelf power - The R's spent millions ( billions ??) and many many months trying to oust The Donald , and they lost . There is only 1 establishment candidate running this time around . And NO I'm not really on the Trump train . But he is not establishment at all.

 

You are correct, Trump is NOT establishment. Neither is he "Republican" or conservative. Trump is Trump and a lot of what that means is still unknown. Anyone who likes that and likes his stance on the things he has repeatedly talked about, like immigration and how to handle terrorism, should vote for him.

 

I actually think the Republican platform is somewhat unimportant as far as the presidency goes because Trump is not beholden to it. It is more important to the Republican candidates running for the House or Senate. Just thinking out loud in this paragraph.

 

 

No he isn't establishment, but what he is running on is the last gasp of the generation that wants the US to look like 1950s America. He is a populist in the vein of the "Know Nothings" and that is something that I, being someone who believes in individual liberty and leaving people alone, will never support. If the Rs want to survive the death of the angry baby boomers then they need to veer libertarian if they want the younger generation involved period. Until that happens I am voting libertarian and it would take an impressive candidate to get my vote to the Rs or the Ds. Neither of the current ones fit that description.

Peprock - I dont get that vibe at all. That Trump is a 50's mentality candidate , I mean I think he has SERIOUS flaws , but the man just gave props to the GBLQT crowd , that isnt exactly a take me back to 50's stuff. Old Grappler doesnt even think Trump is a conservative .

Peprock - I dont get that vibe at all. That Trump is a 50's mentality candidate , I mean I think he has SERIOUS flaws , but the man just gave props to the GBLQT crowd , that isnt exactly a take me back to 50's stuff. Old Grappler doesnt even think Trump is a conservative .

 

He isn't but the loud ones that supported him from the get go are, he promises an America where we wall ourselves off from that which is "different." Build a wall on the border, ban Muslims from entering the country, undo free trade agreements. Many Americans don't like the fact that the country has changed and they see it as a change for the worse, those loud and angry ones are the ones who have been vehemently supporting Trump from day 1. After all if "Make America Great Again," isn't a slogan trying to harken back to an earlier time I don't know what is.

 

He is playing on the emotions, not the details. In that he is very clever by working emotions up into a frenzy. I don't play that game and I will not be voting for any evil, greater or lesser. Either way if Gary Johnson can take enough votes away from either candidate then you will likely start to see both parties incorporating some libertarian ideology to try to court those of us who are disgusted with both parties and their candidates. THAT is why I am voting L and will not, barring some lightning strike on both candidates, vote for D or R.

No I think that has just been the 51% number needed in a race between just 2 candidates winning states. It's just easier to explain on newscast that the first to 270 is the winner. But if Johnson were to win a state with 10 electors then the number to win the majority would drop from 270.

 

False. They have to get to 270. If they don't the House will elect the president and can choose from anyone among the top 3.

You almost cant aline beliefs with a true party anymore, which im not sure is good or bad. Maybe we are working our way to a one party system where it is just about where canidates are on the issues individually.

 

I have been asking for this for years! Line em all up and pick the one that has the most comman beliefs. No parties needed.

But it's all about the money.

I have been asking for this for years! Line em all up and pick the one that has the most comman beliefs. No parties needed.

But it's all about the money.

 

I would prefer that honestly

America needs to be much greater , maybe I'm a minority but the nation seems filled with more hate , more distrust and violence than ever before .. and No I'm not suggesting we go back the 50 or 60's where rights of some groups were being abused . I dont get the drift that Trump wants to make America great by resorting to the mentality of the 50s or 60's . His is more of a make America great again economically rather than socially message - IMO. Yes there is some isolationist language in some of his talk but we should do something to secure our borders . Maybe not a wall , but if a wall lets legal immigrants in and keeps illegals out a wall isnt a bad idea .. but I'm always FOR legal immigration

America needs to be much greater , maybe I'm a minority but the nation seems filled with more hate , more distrust and violence than ever before .. and No I'm not suggesting we go back the 50 or 60's where rights of some groups were being abused . I dont get the drift that Trump wants to make America great by resorting to the mentality of the 50s or 60's . His is more of a make America great again economically rather than socially message - IMO. Yes there is some isolationist language in some of his talk but we should do something to secure our borders . Maybe not a wall , but if a wall lets legal immigrants in and keeps illegals out a wall isnt a bad idea .. but I'm always FOR legal immigration

 

That's 100% hyperbole from the left. Their normal tactic anytime anyone suggests any change to their "utopia". Look how the react anytime any change to Social Security or Medicare are brought up.

That's 100% hyperbole from the left. Their normal tactic anytime anyone suggests any change to their "utopia". Look how the react anytime any change to Social Security or Medicare are brought up.

 

When have I EVER been on the left? Don't lump me in with that crowd.

America needs to be much greater , maybe I'm a minority but the nation seems filled with more hate , more distrust and violence than ever before .. and No I'm not suggesting we go back the 50 or 60's where rights of some groups were being abused . I dont get the drift that Trump wants to make America great by resorting to the mentality of the 50s or 60's . His is more of a make America great again economically rather than socially message - IMO. Yes there is some isolationist language in some of his talk but we should do something to secure our borders . Maybe not a wall , but if a wall lets legal immigrants in and keeps illegals out a wall isnt a bad idea .. but I'm always FOR legal immigration

 

 

Look I don't have a problem with fixing the immigration system but the whole "DEPORT 'EM" idea is just stupid. It is as stupid as leaving things at the status quo. I posted a plan on here a long time ago, but no one in Washington or even running now would have the guts to suggest something that sensible. Just yelling "build a wall and make them pay for it" is ridiculous. As to making us great economically I have heard little from him on that other than being anti-free trade. You may be able to run a government like a business (it would be an interesting experiment if nothing else) but his potential international policies are another thing that worry me. His temperament is not that of someone you want involved in negotiations. While on that subject I do not like how our current president has handled most of the international relations of his time in office either. I also never voted for him so there's that.

 

There is nothing short of him dropping dead and Rand Paul being brought out as the R candidate that would make me vote R this fall.

 

On the social thing you and I may be getting different vibes and that's fine, I am just basing it on what I see. Maybe it is the crazy religious right that for some unfathomable reason supporting Trump, maybe it is the subtle racism of some of his supporters, maybe it is the people that are so mad at the establishment they would vote for a barely tamed bear over a Bush/Clinton, and maybe it is the fact that anytime anyone talks about how nice it is to see someone not being "PC" is usually the same people who get all bent out of shape about things that don't fall into "traditional values," maybe it is my own perspective. I have never voted D for president and I have yet to see one that would get my vote, by that same token all the Rs that would have pulled my vote obviously fell by the wayside.

 

I want the government out of my bedroom, my wallet, my church (and my church out of my government for that matter), and out of my way as much as possible. What people do in the privacy of their own homes is none of my business, if they get married it is none of my business, if they want to use a bathroom they feel fits them then that is none of my business, if someone wants to own an AR-15 with a 100 round drum mage that is none of my business, if someone in my neighborhood wants to put a giant statue of a middle finger in their front yard that is none of my business (I hate neighborhood associations with all my being), if someone wants to have multiple spouses (as long as all are consenting adults) that is none of my business.

 

Neither of them fit that mold and Trump's choice of Pence definitely puts me further away from him than I would have been. That is where I stand, I highly doubt you will be able to change my mind. I assume you will try to refute much of what I say and that is fine I welcome this discussion, especially because you are speaking in a reasonable manner.

Edited July 24, 201610 yr by True blue (and gold)

False. They have to get to 270. If they don't the House will elect the president and can choose from anyone among the top 3.

 

My bad I guess.

When have I EVER been on the left? Don't lump me in with that crowd.

 

Wasn't aimed at you

Trump will surround himself with better people. Hillary will just be surrounded by enablers to help cover up her crimes. Her presidency will be a waste because she is so tainted in scandel.

Trump will surround himself with better people. Hillary will just be surrounded by enablers to help cover up her crimes. Her presidency will be a waste because she is so tainted in scandel.

 

 

Pure rubbish.