By your own definition, then, Christianity has not historically been a religion of peace. I would say that even now, with the biblical references used to justify the death penalty, racism, sexism, homophobic didcrimination, etc, Christianity is not a religion of peace. Of course you will counter with a defense about extremists, etc. To which I will say, it's no different. As Christians, we REALLY have no business labeling other religions as extreme or militant while ignoring not onlu our own dirty deeds in the name of God, but our part in creating militant factions within other religions while doing those dirty deeds.

 

By my definition if you are going against what the Bible teaches then you are not a Christian if you are claiming that title. You are a hypocrite. There are many of those in the world. As I told someone else, just because anyone claims to be a Christian by mouth that does not make them a Christian. Anyone who is killing in the name of Jesus is certainly not a Christian according to what the Bible teaches. The old Testament can be used to condone killing for sure. But "Christians" follow the teachings of Jesus and the New Testament which showed us a much different way. If you think that true Christians condone the killing of anyone then you are mistaken.

 

So you are saying the Bible is Racist, Homophobic and Sexist?

 

Also keep in mind that the Jewish people still follow the Old Testament. Are they also Homophobic Racist and Sexist? Or is this just Christians in your eyes?

52% of British Muslims think you should be thrown in jail for being a homosexual. Think about that , that's England, not the middle east.

 

As Mayfield said there is an ideology gap so extreme that a lot of the western world refuses to recognize.

 

Why is it that Democracy never works in this part of the world?

 

The difference in cultures is a big problem trying to integrate all these people.

Not sure but the blessing of the Catholic Church on such events as the colonization of South n Central America, persecution of the Hougenots, other protest-ants is a covert form of the Islamic extremism we see.

 

Though not a war it was Southern Christianity (I.e. Baptists, Presbyterian n Episcopalians) that endorsed and gave religious rationale for the practice n institution of Slavery and later segregation.

 

This false equivlancies just need to stop. We can't solve the problem unless we first agree that their is a problem. Islam has been around since the 6th or 7th century. Yes christianity has its share of evil through out history. But this isn't history , this is today and there is only one religion inflicting destruction and murder all over the globe. A majority of Muslims aren't terrorist but a majority of Muslims hold such ideology so far removed from a civilized society.

By my definition if you are going against what the Bible teaches then you are not a Christian if you are claiming that title. You are a hypocrite. There are many of those in the world. As I told someone else, just because anyone claims to be a Christian by mouth that does not make them a Christian. Anyone who is killing in the name of Jesus is certainly not a Christian according to what the Bible teaches. The old Testament can be used to condone killing for sure. But "Christians" follow the teachings of Jesus and the New Testament which showed us a much different way. If you think that true Christians condone the killing of anyone then you are mistaken.

 

So you are saying the Bible is Racist, Homophobic and Sexist?

 

Also keep in mind that the Jewish people still follow the Old Testament. Are they also Homophobic Racist and Sexist? Or is this just Christians in your eyes?

 

Still, there's a lot of picking and choosing by Christians about which sins to speak out against. Technically divorce should be just as much a sin as homosexuality. But there aren't many that are fighting that sin with the same effort as they fight homosexuality. You never hear someone say how wrong divorce is, or that you're bound for hell if you do it. Many even justify it as the sensible thing to do in situations. Yet as PP1 mentioned, the bible says "no one should try to break that up". Are divorce attorneys and family court judges in trouble just like homosexuals??

Read many MF posts, and I never seen this one coming.

 

I have made that post, (more or less) at least a half-dozen times. It's been while though.

Still, there's a lot of picking and choosing by Christians about which sins to speak out against. Technically divorce should be just as much a sin as homosexuality. But there aren't many that are fighting that sin with the same effort as they fight homosexuality. You never hear someone say how wrong divorce is, or that you're bound for hell if you do it. Many even justify it as the sensible thing to do in situations. Yet as PP1 mentioned, the bible says "no one should try to break that up". Are divorce attorneys and family court judges in trouble just like homosexuals??

 

According to the Bible Divorce is definitely something that should not happen. Many pastors I know will not even marry you unless they know the circumstances if you have been divorced. So yes, divorce is not a good thing.

 

I think the reason most Christians really speak out hard against homosexuality is that its something that the Bible( God ) calls an abomination. Now those are not my words, but the Bible. It was used as a example in the New Testament also (Jude 1:7 New International Version

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." Romans 1:18-32) 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.28Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

These are a couple of places in the New Testament that speaks pretty forward on that issue and the last bolded part of Romans 32 specifically speaks to even the people who pat this sin on the back even though they might not be homosexual. So you just might not want to be approving of something that the Bible speaks so plainly about being very sinful if you are a Christian. Now again these are not my words but the words of the Bible.

 

If I am going to profess myself a Christian, and follow the Bible then I must take the whole word, not just the parts I think is right. Too many people go on what someone has told them, or what they have heard. Better read what the Word really says if you profess to be a Christian.

I have made that post, (more or less) at least a half-dozen times. It's been while though.

 

That was a good post.

According to the Bible Divorce is definitely something that should not happen. Many pastors I know will not even marry you unless they know the circumstances if you have been divorced. So yes, divorce is not a good thing.

 

I think the reason most Christians really speak out hard against homosexuality is that its something that the Bible( God ) calls an abomination. Now those are not my words, but the Bible. It was used as a example in the New Testament also (Jude 1:7 New International Version

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." Romans 1:18-32) 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.28Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

These are a couple of places in the New Testament that speaks pretty forward on that issue and the last bolded part of Romans 32 specifically speaks to even the people who pat this sin on the back even though they might not be homosexual. Now again these are not my words but the words of the Bible.

 

If I am going to profess myself a Christian, and follow the Bible then I must take the whole word, not just the parts I think is right. Too many people go on what someone has told them, or what they have heard. Better read what the Word really says if you profess to be a Christian.

 

Ok. So if you follow the Bible to the word, and to not do so would make you not a Christian, I'm guessing you agree with the part where it says that "God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death" as do "those who approve" of them. How should we go about killing all those folks?? And is that something we need to do in order to gain entrance into heaven?? After all, you say we have to follow the Word exactly. That "deserves death" part sounds pretty harsh. Or is that the only part we should interpret figuratively?

Ok. So if you follow the Bible to the word, and to not do so would make you not a Christian, I'm guessing you agree with the part where it says that "God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death" as do "those who approve" of them. How should we go about killing all those folks?? And is that something we need to do in order to gain entrance into heaven?? After all, you say we have to follow the Word exactly.....

 

I dont say kill anyone. The writer of Romans would be appearing to quote the old Testament where in the Law of the old testament those things were worthy of death, and he is using that to show what and how big of a sin this still is and God is a righteous judge.

 

I think we as Christians better at the very least do the best we can with the knowledge of God we have. Not try to do it our way and perverting the Word and deciding what we think is right or wrong. If you have a problem with the Bible I would suggest you ask God why he said the things he did in it, or better yet start in Genesis and read it to Revelation and pray for understanding. Chances are your questions will be answered.

 

Again what I posted was not my words, but the words of the Bible.

Ok. So if you follow the Bible to the word, and to not do so would make you not a Christian, I'm guessing you agree with the part where it says that "God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death" as do "those who approve" of them. How should we go about killing all those folks?? And is that something we need to do in order to gain entrance into heaven?? After all, you say we have to follow the Word exactly. That "deserves death" part sounds pretty harsh. Or is that the only part we should interpret figuratively?

 

Think of this conversation like this. I am saying you should follow what the Bible says if you wish to enter into heaven. Entrance into heaven according to the New Testament means to acknowledge Jesus was the son of God and that he came to Earth as a man, died as the ultimate sacrifice for your sins and you have accepted that fact and publicly spoke that. Then repent and turn 180 Degrees from your sins and follow Jesus.This means you have to know what the Bible says and follow it. If you have done those things then you will make it to heaven. If you have not you wont.

I dont say kill anyone. The writer of Romans would be appearing to quote the old Testament where in the Law of the old testament those things were worthy of death, and he is using that to show what and how big of a sin this still is and God is a righteous judge.

 

I think we as Christians better at the very least do the best we can with the knowledge of God we have. Not try to do it our way and perverting the Word and deciding what we think is right or wrong. If you have a problem with the Bible I would suggest you ask God why he said the things he did in it, or better yet start in Genesis and read it to Revelation and pray for understanding. Chances are your questions will be answered.

 

Again what I posted was not my words, but the words of the Bible.

 

So we absolutely understand that homosexuality is wrong based on what is written, but we don't think they deserve death because the writers were simply referencing a previous quote for affect. How can we be so sure that one part is absolute but the other isn't. you say we shouldn't "pervert the Word", or "try to decide what is right and what is wrong". Yet that is what we are doing when you say the "deserves death" part "appears" to just be a quote put in for affect.

So we absolutely understand that homosexuality is wrong based on what is written, but we don't think they deserve death because the writers were simply referencing a previous quote for affect. How can we be so sure that one part is absolute but the other isn't. you say we shouldn't "pervert the Word", or "try to decide what is right and what is wrong". Yet that is what we are doing when you say the "deserves death" part "appears" to just be a quote put in for affect.

 

Ok what do you say it means? If I am wrong lets hear your version. Remember its Gods word not mine.

So we absolutely understand that homosexuality is wrong based on what is written, but we don't think they deserve death because the writers were simply referencing a previous quote for affect. How can we be so sure that one part is absolute but the other isn't. you say we shouldn't "pervert the Word", or "try to decide what is right and what is wrong". Yet that is what we are doing when you say the "deserves death" part "appears" to just be a quote put in for affect.

 

The deserve death part is actually part of that verse. Not something I made up. I never bolded that part. I bolded the part that says those that approve of these things are in trouble also. If you approve of what the Bible calls sin or pat it on the back, you have some serious issues with God also. Read that whole Romans scripture again and read it closer. It takes into alot of different types of people, not just homosexuals.

 

And if I was worried about this and I was a professed Christian I would be trying to figure out how to get lined up with what the Bible said or denounce it one. Looks like several has a choice.

Ok what do you say it means? If I am wrong lets hear your version. Remember its Gods word not mine.

 

I'd say it means that in God's eyes, based on a literal interpretation, they deserve to die. I don't see how you can have it both ways. That part of the passage is literal, and yet other parts are just in for dramatic effect.

 

Now personally, I know there's much more context to the issue. And the language used really leaves a lot of space to fit in many more things than just homosexuality. It also doesn't define what natural vs unnatural relations are. Where does normal stop and a natural begin. Are the shameful acts that men committed with other men referring to homosexual acts, or is it that men as a group are being immoral?? Are thoughts of a homosexual nature an "shameful act" as well? I see this more as a passage on immorality, and that there are things more important than sex, and by chasing this immorality purely for the act of doing it, outside of love, will lead to serious problems down the road.

 

I'm not exactly a biblical scholar though. But I believe in a more figurative, here's a roadmap interpretation, rather than a strict literal interpretation.

I'd say it means that in God's eyes, based on a literal interpretation, they deserve to die. I don't see how you can have it both ways. That part of the passage is literal, and yet other parts are just in for dramatic effect.

 

Now personally, I know there's much more context to the issue. And the language used really leaves a lot of space to fit in many more things than just homosexuality. It also doesn't define what natural vs unnatural relations are. Where does normal stop and a natural begin. Are the shameful acts that men committed with other men referring to homosexual acts, or is it that men as a group are being immoral?? Are thoughts of a homosexual nature an "shameful act" as well? I see this more as a passage on immorality, and that there are things more important than sex, and by chasing this immorality purely for the act of doing it, outside of love, will lead to serious problems down the road.

 

I'm not exactly a biblical scholar though. But I believe in a more figurative, here's a roadmap interpretation, rather than a strict literal interpretation.

 

Yes it does. See below.

 

27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.