^ We all have to make nice in these forums or we get a vacation and from experience they don't mix well with egos.

Do you get the feeling you are in the minority? Even among other Christians?

 

Amongst the BGP community I do. Amongst my teacher friends I do. But there are indeed three small pockets of the world where I am held in high regard.

ARRRGGGGG!!!

 

Two points, which I have made before, but here we go.

 

It is wrong to say Christians are against gay rights. Some are, some aren't. This is because there is no god, and people simply have beliefs, and at some point they attribute their beliefs to their religion. This is why there is a universal rate of 100 % of people whose religious beliefs and their personal beliefs being exactly the same, even though the beliefs vary widely from person to person and era to era and country to country.

 

 

Second point. These types of laws are the laws by which the Muslims are going to gain greater influence in our country. And Islam is worse than Christianity. All religions are not equally bad, some are more bad than others. So all the Christians happy about this are helping the other side.

 

The Muslims will use laws like this to discriminate as they see fit. It will happen at some point. And what basis will we use to say no they can't? They worship the wrong god?

 

Christians have all the religious freedom in the world. Literally, and I mean literally, the freest people in all of human history. Let's review. Can go to church of choice at any time. Can go as much as you want. Can believe anything you want. Can make religious movies. Can make religious music. Can make your own schools and send your kids there. And no taxes for your church. Can live your entire life in a cocoon of your religion. No other nation in the history of the earth has ever had this, Christians in America have it better than anybody...ever.

 

But somehow all that doesn't matter unless they can also refuse to bake cakes or whatnot. Taking advantage of our laws, our business models, our laws that require open and free business to encourage commerce, taking everything, but refusing to just play by the same rules as everyone else.

 

And for what? So somebody can feel better because they didn't have to deal with a gay person? And at the cost of paving the way for the fastest-growing and quickest expanding religion in the world a foothold here? Quick, what's the fastest growing religion in America? You all know what is. We should stop paving the way.

Amongst the BGP community I do. Amongst my teacher friends I do. But there are indeed three small pockets of the world where I am held in high regard.

 

Just because we disagree on this core issue doesn't mean you are not held in high regard here at BGP.

Amongst the BGP community I do. Amongst my teacher friends I do. But there are indeed three small pockets of the world where I am held in high regard.

 

I hold you in high regard. I appreciate that you not only are open to what others have to say, you try to draw out other's opinions.

ARRRGGGGG!!!

 

Two points, which I have made before, but here we go.

 

It is wrong to say Christians are against gay rights. Some are, some aren't. This is because there is no god, and people simply have beliefs, and at some point they attribute their beliefs to their religion. This is why there is a universal rate of 100 % of people whose religious beliefs and their personal beliefs being exactly the same, even though the beliefs vary widely from person to person and era to era and country to country.

 

 

Second point. These types of laws are the laws by which the Muslims are going to gain greater influence in our country. And Islam is worse than Christianity. All religions are not equally bad, some are more bad than others. So all the Christians happy about this are helping the other side.

 

The Muslims will use laws like this to discriminate as they see fit. It will happen at some point. And what basis will we use to say no they can't? They worship the wrong god?

 

Christians have all the religious freedom in the world. Literally, and I mean literally, the freest people in all of human history. Let's review. Can go to church of choice at any time. Can go as much as you want. Can believe anything you want. Can make religious movies. Can make religious music. Can make your own schools and send your kids there. And no taxes for your church. Can live your entire life in a cocoon of your religion. No other nation in the history of the earth has ever had this, Christians in America have it better than anybody...ever.

 

But somehow all that doesn't matter unless they can also refuse to bake cakes or whatnot. Taking advantage of our laws, our business models, our laws that require open and free business to encourage commerce, taking everything, but refusing to just play by the same rules as everyone else.

 

And for what? So somebody can feel better because they didn't have to deal with a gay person? And at the cost of paving the way for the fastest-growing and quickest expanding religion in the world a foothold here? Quick, what's the fastest growing religion in America? You all know what is. We should stop paving the way.

 

You make a lot of excellent points. I especially agree with the premise that laws like this pave the way for Muslims/Islam to have equal rights and thus "equal" laws of their own.

 

In short, I think we need the Supreme Court to get involved before we end up with a big mess on our hands in multiple states.

So because Christians are sticking to their guns regarding homosexuality, Muslim terrorists are going to take over the country?

So because Christians are sticking to their guns regarding homosexuality, Muslim terrorists are going to take over the country?

 

One, that's not what I said. Two, it's not "Christians are sticking...." You don't speak for all Christians, as I said, many Christians don't have a problem with gay marriage. Kinda presumptuous to think your views are shared by all, or even most, Christians.

 

Second, yeah, going down this road with demanding special religious rights to discriminate is exactly what Muslims will use. By the year 2050, Islam will be bigger than Christianity world-wide. By that time, Islam will have a very sizable minority in this country. Enjoy your religious freedom while you can, because your grandchildren or great-grandchildren won't be able to.

It would be interesting to see exactly how the law is written. I see the "sincerely held religious beliefs" statement to be where lawsuits will really concentrate.

A fascinating difference of opinion between two major Republican blocs - the "religious right" group (as opposed to the "religious left", which does not shy away from gay marriage) and the "Chamber of Commerce" group.

 

Generally aligned, but not in this scenario.

It would be interesting to see exactly how the law is written. I see the "sincerely held religious beliefs" statement to be where lawsuits will really concentrate.

 

Agreed. There's a big difference between "sincerely held religious beliefs" and the old "it's against my religion" that kids always used to say.

It would be interesting to see exactly how the law is written. I see the "sincerely held religious beliefs" statement to be where lawsuits will really concentrate.

 

Agreed. There's a big difference between "sincerely held religious beliefs" and the old "it's against my religion" that kids always used to say.

 

I agree with both as an accurate summation of "where the rubber hits the road" so to speak. But because it's accurate is one of the reasons this law is so misguided. To expand:

 

The people of Westboro BC have sincerely held beliefs. So do the terrorists. Obscene beliefs and sincere. A lot of times when people warn of "slippery slopes" or "Pandora's box" those warning may be logically sound but as a practical matter not that important. In this case, the slippery slope is very real, and very dangerous. We must keep all religion out of government, not allow our laws to carve out special exemptions for religious beliefs, and apply our laws to religious/non-religious in the same manner.

 

Another reason this is a bad law, and here I don't mean to offend, but we should move away from this idea of giving special entitlements to "religious" views. If I own a bakery and I have very sincere personal belief against interracial couples, most Americans would agree that I have to put my personal belief aside and comply with the law. And most Americans agree that it would be a bad idea to allow me to discriminate on the basis of my sincerely held personal belief. The same goes for sincerely held political beliefs. Democratic bakery owners can't refuse service to Republicans. This is how America works, and it is one of our greatest strengths.

 

But religious beliefs are different from political beliefs or personal beliefs how? We have to tiptoe around them. The holders of religious beliefs oftentimes mistake their freedom of religion for a "special" place for religious beliefs.

 

We are already suffering the consequences of our long habit of considering "religious" beliefs in a different way from political, scientific, or personal beliefs. Look at how we almost have to discuss Islam now. In muted terms, always deferential. They killed those people at the magazine office in Paris for depicting their religion in a cartoon. Our response SHOULD have been to reprint that cartoon everywhere, all the time. But it wasn't. We debated the "wisdom" of that cartoon, as if printing a cartoon in some way could justify murdering the cartoonists.

 

Religious views need to be put on par with every other type of view. No better, no worse. Ideas and views must survive on their merits.

 

Long post. Sorry.

I hold you in high regard. I appreciate that you not only are open to what others have to say, you try to draw out other's opinions.

 

Ditto. And has resulted in some good threads here.

http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/documents/2016/pdf/HB/1500-1599/HB1523SG.pdf

North Carolina passed similar legislation.

 

Springsteen just cancelled his concert there.

PayPal cancelled a project that would have brought hundreds of jobs.

Barkley pushing for the NBA to not have the All-Star game there.

 

MS isn't NC so it may not suffer as much backlash.