I'm still waiting for the proof that Barry Bonds has taken steroids. I hear a lot of speculation and accusations, but I don't see any proof. When there is proof that Bonds cheated, then all of you can wine and moan that Bonds cheated and he needs an asterisk or a lifetime ban from baseball. Until there is proof, Bonds is nothing more than a superstar hitter with a bad personality. Go Barry - I hope you hit 1,000 home runs.

 

I have yet to figure out why it matters if Barry Bonds did cheat or not? And if he did, why does HE deserve an asterisk, have records taken away, etc. If Bonds gets an asterisk, how many others should be incriminated? Do you asterisk the last 20 years.

 

My advice for baseball stat person, get over and move on. Do not live in "stat world" and place astericks everywhere, do not break stats down so much in that they have little value... just let it be and go on. It is probably the best thing to do. Baseball just needs to eliminate the current problem instead of trying modify the past problems.

I'm still waiting for the proof that Barry Bonds has taken steroids. I hear a lot of speculation and accusations, but I don't see any proof. When there is proof that Bonds cheated, then all of you can wine and moan that Bonds cheated and he needs an asterisk or a lifetime ban from baseball. Until there is proof, Bonds is nothing more than a superstar hitter with a bad personality. Go Barry - I hope you hit 1,000 home runs.

 

Did you completely miss where Bonds admitted using the cream and the clear (designer steroids made by BALCO) but claimed he didn't know what they were...what more proof do you need other than the words out of his mouth?????????

 

Get your head out of the sand. Here's one article on it so you can catch up with the rest of us...

 

Barry Bonds told a federal grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream supplied by the Burlingame laboratory now enmeshed in a sports doping scandal, but he said he never thought they were steroids, The Chronicle has learned.

 

Federal prosecutors charge that the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative, known as BALCO, distributed undetectable steroids to elite athletes in the form of a clear substance that was taken orally and a cream that was rubbed onto the body.

 

Bonds testified that he had received and used clear and cream substances from his personal strength trainer, Greg Anderson, during the 2003 baseball season but was told they were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis, according to a transcript of his testimony reviewed by The Chronicle.

 

Federal prosecutors confronted Bonds during his testimony on Dec. 4, 2003, with documents indicating he had used steroids and human growth hormone during a three-year assault on baseball's home run record, but the Giants star denied the allegations.

 

During the three-hour proceeding, two prosecutors presented Bonds with documents that allegedly detailed his use of a long list of drugs: human growth hormone, Depo-Testosterone, undetectable steroids known as "the cream" and "the clear," insulin and Clomid, a drug for female infertility sometimes used to enhance the effect of testosterone.

 

The documents, many with Bonds' name on them, are dated from 2001 through 2003. They include a laboratory test result that could reflect steroid use and what appeared to be schedules of drug use with billing information, prosecutors told the grand jury.

 

In a September 2003 raid on Anderson's Burlingame home, federal investigators seized documents they said showed Bonds was using banned drugs, according to court records. Anderson was indicted in February on charges of money laundering and conspiracy to distribute steroids in the BALCO

 

Bonds is a jerk, a bad role model, a bad teammate and he has broken the laws of the land to achieve his personal goal.

 

I don't much care what happens with the stats as they are so perverted between the "Dead Ball Era" and now the "Steroid Era" no one can make any sense of it all because things have changed so much over the years. The game being played today is not the same on our fathers and grandfathers grew up with. As Bugatti says, forget the historical numbers and focus on the current game.

 

Now as for what steroids will help with, bat speed...which will enable the batter to catch up to balls he would not have been able to otherwise get a bat on. Also means the batter will have a better chance of pulling the ball down the line to what is typically a shorter part of the field. Steroids also enables the batter to drive the ball further thus, as Jim said, turning some former fly ball outs into a round trippers. And most importantly, as SM pointed out, recovery time from injury. Less time on the DL means more at bats, it also means you are fresher than those unaided players around you at the end of the season.

I have yet to figure out why it matters if Barry Bonds did cheat or not? And if he did, why does HE deserve an asterisk, have records taken away, etc. If Bonds gets an asterisk, how many others should be incriminated? Do you asterisk the last 20 years.

 

My advice for baseball stat person, get over and move on. Do not live in "stat world" and place astericks everywhere, do not break stats down so much in that they have little value... just let it be and go on. It is probably the best thing to do. Baseball just needs to eliminate the current problem instead of trying modify the past problems.

It's impossible to "just move on." Baseball is a stat-driven game, with its magic numbers the stuff of lore: 56, 61, .406, 755/714, 4191/4256, etc. I'm a serious football fan, but I can't tell you how many career rushing yards Emmitt Smith has, or how many career TDs Jerry Rice has. But with baseball, the numbers matter, and far more so than any other sport.

It's impossible to "just move on." Baseball is a stat-driven game, with its magic numbers the stuff of lore: 56, 61, .406, 755/714, 4191/4256, etc. I'm a serious football fan, but I can't tell you how many career rushing yards Emmitt Smith has, or how many career TDs Jerry Rice has. But with baseball, the numbers matter, and far more so than any other sport.

I realize that. So, let them be. I see no solution to the problem at hand. In other words, move on. Correct what is currently wrong and prevent it in the future.

 

See, baseball people think by altering stats or throwing around asterisks, things will be fine and dandy. When I see those numbers, I think of stories to go along with it. If today Bonds ended his career and I heard the number, 715, I would not think the 2nd greatest HR hitter ever. I do not think the majority thinks this way.

Article about fans and there thoughts on Bonds, breaking Aaron's record....

 

Fans Thoughts on Bonds Breaking HR Record

Neither Gwynn nor Carew had much power. Imagine what their career stats would have looked like if they had been on Bonds' vitamin regimen. I never considered Rose in the same class as a pure hitter as Gwynn and Carew. His durability, hustle, and longevity were his ticket to fame.

 

I would probably rank Frank Robinson, Willie Mays, and Henry Aaron as the greatest hitters of my lifetime. Back to Barry Bonds, how many more homers would that trio have hit if they had the same "supplements" that Bonds had available to him. I don't remember how much Robinson's numbers dropped off before he retired, but Aaron and Mays suffered a sharp decline late in their careers in their power and batting averages.

 

I agree, but couldn't you make the argument that today's pitchers are using "supplements" along with Bonds so in a way it equals out?

I agree, but couldn't you make the argument that today's pitchers are using "supplements" along with Bonds so in a way it equals out?

You could make the argument, but I think you would be wrong. Pitching talent is diluted today through expansion, more top athletes choose to go into other sports at all levels than in past eras, the pitching mound was lowered by 6 inches in 1969 - there are many factors that have diluted the pitching talent pool in modern times and worked to the advantage of hitters.

 

Steroids may help pitchers recover quicker between starts, but I don't think that they do much to improve the basic quality of pitching in MLB. At least not enough to offset the other factors that have caused ERA's to soar during the steroid era.

 

Bud Selig and the owners wanted to inject more offense into the game and they did it by looking the other way as steroid use destroyed the validity of baseball's statistical records. I agree with Jim Shue, stats have been more important in baseball than any other game. Stats have always been an integral part of baseball's appeal and steroids have made them nearly meaningless. Now, players who can afford the trainers and drugs that can allow them to escape detection are prized over hard work in the weightroom. Baseball is professional wrestling in a different package.

Maybe so, but I still have my suspicions. How is it, if he works so hard, that he has remained doughy all these years? Shouldn't he have lost some of that baby fat?

The summer coach (and offseason pitching instructor) of my two sons pitched with Clemons when he was with the Blue Jays. I asked him once about this extreme workout that I had always heard so much of. He told me that Clemons did not do the first thing different than any of what the rest of the guys did.