I'm sure that we've all seen the video poker machines in convenience stores, gas stations, bars or pool halls. You know the ones, where you put money in to play poker or a slot machine type game or maybe even the game where you drop quarters in hoping the bulldozer will then push a pile of quarters off to you. Well I think as we all know those are illegal to have any place in Kentucky or in most states. From time to time there is a round up and several machines get confiscated and the business owners get arrested or indicted for promoting gambling.

 

Many of those place try to get around the illegality of what their doing by not paying cash directly but giving some sort of credit that can be cashed in at their business for other items...but yet it is still illegal to do so. This isn't an argument on if it should be legal or not...has of now it is not.

 

If we can all agree that is illegal then how in the world is what Gattitown, Chuck E Cheese or any of these ticket winning places does any different. Kids/parents gamble money on a game of chance to win tickets that are then used to pay for prizes.

 

Heck are carnival games even legal, really are they?

I think that gambling for money is a bit different than playing arcade games to win a pencil or a stuffed animal.

I think that gambling for money is a bit different than playing arcade games to win a pencil or a stuffed animal.

So I can set up video poker in my garage and just give tickets as payouts and let people exchange them for an IPod or a case of beer? As long as they just get tickets like Chuck E Cheese does it matter legally what prizes are available?

 

Remember in both cases you have to pay cash to play.

I'm not trying to make a joke, but there was a King of the Hill episode pretty much about this subject. It came down to the difference between money and toys/trinkets. Or really any prizes, for that matter.

So I can set up video poker in my garage and just give tickets as payouts and let people exchange them for an IPod or a case of beer? As long as they just get tickets like Chuck E Cheese does it matter legally what prizes are available?

 

Remember in both cases you have to pay cash to play.

 

Not having a business license would probably do you in if you set something up in your garage. Also, are those games deemed games of chance at Gatti's, Snappy Tomato etc? Skeeball, Pop A Shot and other games give out tickets and I don't think they would be considered games of chance. On the others I think they give out at least one ticket even if you don't win. That might be the difference--you're guaranteed to get something.

I take it you have never been in charge charitable gaming in the state of KY? You would not believe all the regulations.

I take it you have never been in charge charitable gaming in the state of KY? You would not believe all the regulations.

 

My buddy's wife used to work for the charitable gaming regulators in Frankfort. The number of neighborhood festivals and church bingos she visited was astounding.

I was joking about my garage, all I have is a carport anyway :lol2:

 

Video Poker is also a game of chance...it's also in every casino. The bulldozer quarter game is a game of chance, yet it is illegal...unless you play it at pizza place for tickets.

 

I don't know, the "one ticket" thing could be the loophole...but several of those games I don't remember always giving one ticket...but they may.

 

The video poker could be set to spit out a ticket or give you a minimal credit also, that way you always get some payback. The way many of them work is that you rack up X amount of credits while playing and then you convert that to some sort of payout.

 

Gattis has had items that would cost well over $100 in the past and will even let you set up a savings account for your tickets so you can save up for the big ticket item.

 

I understand the thought that on the surface that Video Poker and the games at Chuck E Cheese don't seem that similar but I think they are pretty close and we've just never paid attention to it because of the small prizes won.

 

1) You pay to play the game (buy tokens or insert a bill, your still paying to play)

2) The game is much more about chance than skill (think of the non-ball throwing games at CEC, it's pure chance)

3) You receive a credit payout based on your performance (tickets or credits)

4) That payout is then converted into hard items such as material/monetary items

 

I had this very discussion with a Detective many years ago and he said that legally the Pizza place was probably guilty of promoting gambling.

I was at one of my favorite hole in the wall burger places this weekend in another county and noticed that they had 3 or 4 games, 2 of which were new since the last time I was there a few months ago. That gave me the idea for this thread...then something came up on and I decided to wait until today to start this thread.

Anyone know where to find a bare-bones version of Kentucky's gaming laws and regs? My guess would be that the laws as they are have been written so that they exclude a lot of these kinds of games.

Anyone know where to find a bare-bones version of Kentucky's gaming laws and regs? My guess would be that the laws as they are have been written so that they exclude a lot of these kinds of games.

 

I'm sure your right that they have been exempted...just think that there are several loopholes that could be exploited if those are deemed to be legal that others could get away with video poker or other gambling devices.

I'm sure your right that they have been exempted...just think that there are several loopholes that could be exploited if those are deemed to be legal that others could get away with video poker or other gambling devices.

 

I know that in a lot of states there are exceptions that involve a differentiation between "games of skill" and "games of chance". That may come into play here.

I know that in a lot of states there are exceptions that involve a differentiation between "games of skill" and "games of chance". That may come into play here.

 

Bingo. The phrase, that is, not the game. The "game of skill" usage is why parimutuel betting is permitted in KY, and why they were able to get quasi-legal status for those instant racing slot machines, which seem to be making a killing at some places, Franklin being one of them.

I know that in a lot of states there are exceptions that involve a differentiation between "games of skill" and "games of chance". That may come into play here.

Doing some reading of various articles it seems Chuck E Cheese, Dave & Busters and the like seem to be legal in some states and just ignored in others :lol2:

 

A lot of those games in the pizza places are set or can be set to only allow wins at preordained intervals, those I would think would always be illegal. While Pop-a-Shot or Skeeball could be argued that those are more skill than luck and therefore would be allowed.

Pure Chance