The toughest district in the State should have the most interesting regional tournament.

 

Tates Creek hosts this year, and will face #4 Lafayette, who lost the third place tiebreaker to Dunbar, in the 4/5 game. The winner of that one goes on to play #1 Lexington Christian Academy. In the bottom bracket, a tantalizing matchup between #2 Lexington Catholic and #3 Dunbar will send one of the State's top 20 teams packing right away.

 

One big question given all the cancellations is whether or not the privates will have a bit of a built in advantage given that they have presumably been able to practice while the publics cannot per Lexington-Fayette County Public Schools policy. Will rust be an issue?

 

 

#4 Lafayette vs. #5 Tates Creek:

 

Lafayette, I'll call this team "the State's best #4 seed in any district". They have balance. They have what lots of teams in the field lack in a true back-to-the-basket post threat in Ross Jenkins. Lucky Jackson, a WKU Football commit at the WR position, provides length, athleticism, toughness, rebounding, defesnse, and penetration. Harrison Lane, the son of Transylvania's Brian Lane, is a sniper who spaces the floor, understand seams and spacing, must be accounted for at all times, and isn't afraid to take the big shot. Jaelin Jenkins and Jujuante Carpenter are a pair of quick, dynamic guards who are strong with the ball and can get hot at any moment. TJ Downey is an excellent 6th man who'd start for most teams around the State. They play a lot of kids, with William Watkins and Cameron Greenup typically rounding things out at the 7 & 8 spots, so as you can see, the Generals have some depth.

 

Well-coached, they are led by Michael Mendenhall, a former Lexington Catholic assistant whose father was one of the architects of the Lexington Catholic dynasty of the 90's. The same 2-2-1 pressure, up-tempo game, and liberal substitutions that made the Knights renowned is employed just down the street at Lafayette. Mendenhall is building a sustainable winner, and while they've had some ups and downs this year, games like the victories over LCA, Bryan Station, Perry County Central, and Trinity during a 4 game stretch in February or over Bryan Station and Lexington Catholic in back-to-back January contests show that they're capable of going on the kind of run they'll need to navigate to win the 11th.

 

Don't write off the Commodores just yet though. They will definitely be an underdog, but a home game against Lafayette is not out of reach, nor is it the foregone conclusion that some are making it out to be. Tates Creek actually defeated the Generals by 3 in late December for their lone district win.

 

They'll have a senior in Jordan Fucci who'll be playing what could be his last game on his home court. Same goes for Desmond Duke, Darius Barkesdale, Trey Sturdivant, Max Sweet, and Le Shawn Wright, so you know that emotions will be high.

 

I think it'd be a huge upset if the Dores won two straight over Lafayette and LCA to get to the regional tournament, and the fact that they have beaten Lafayette once this year means that it's not as likely that the Generals overlook them, but still, this is a fairly good team that just happens to play in the State's toughest district and deepest region.

 

While it may be another year before Tates Creek ends a regional title drought that goes back to 1991, their record doesn't indicate what they actually are, and while that still isn't a team that'd be favored over any of their four district counterparts, it's still one that's capable of beating them at home on a given night.

 

 

 

#2 Lexington Catholic vs. #3 Dunbar:

 

The two split games this season, with each coming at a time at which Dunbar was at full strength.

 

As I've mentioned an absurd amount of times already, the Bulldogs have not been at full strength most of the year, and only got there on January 9th.

 

Since then, are 9-4, with wins over Henry Clay twice, Boyle County, Lafayette, Lexington Catholic, Manual, and Doss. Their losses came at the hands of LCA, Lexington Catholic, Bryan Station, and Wayne County. If you can't tell from the above, that was one brutal 15 game stretch that will ensure that the Dawgs are battle tested come tournament time. They'll need to be just that though, as they face of with Lexington Catholic in a win-or-go home game in the first round of 43rd District play.

 

The Dawgs attack begins and ends with two kids, Jr. SG Darius Williams and So. PG Taveion Hollingsworth (Darius' video here and Taveion's video here). Both can light up a scoreboard in a hurry and average an obscene amount of points.

 

The middle is anchored by So. Dontell Brown, a kid who is averaging just shy of a double-double despite not taking the court until January. He brings toughness, rebounding, and the kind of aggressiveness that a kid so young just has to have to survive the post wars in the 11th. Before his emergence, the Dawgs were lacking that, but now that it's there, they are a different team. He doesn't average gaudy numbers, but you shouldn't discount what he really means to the squad. Same goes for Jordan Lewis, a junior guard who has played well down the stretch and provides both rebounds and assists as well. Seniors Jeremy Ward and PJ Corio, plus juniors Trey Penny and Justin Kelley, all guards, round out the lineup and add both experience and depth.

 

I've been a big Dunbar fan most of the year, even going as far as to name them my preseason #1. For all the talent they have and all the energy they've harnessed, however, the fact remains that this is a school who hasn't been to a regional tournament in some time, and it's been even longer since they've worn the 11th Region crown (1997). Aside from inexperience, you also worry about their lack of size on the whole, which becomes especially worrisome if Dontell Brown were to get in foul trouble.

 

 

What I like about the Knights: they have the kind of depth that few teams in the region have and they are still a fundamentally sound group. Their top three of Tanner Johnson, Jarod Griffin, and Michael Talbott is solid. Reese Ryan, a WKU QB commit, is a very solid, blue-collar "glue guy" who is a bit undersized but fights hard inside. Add to that the toughness and athleticism of fellow gridiron mates JJ Ogbogu and Donovan Morris. Top it off with the size of an experienced Walker Boothe and a young but talented Peter Whitman, and a very talented but still young Zan Payne (the son of UK assistant and former U of L Cardinal Kenny Payne), and you can see that the Knights have a lot of different combinations that they can play and get different contributions from.

 

At the same time, I've just had a feeling for most of the season that this just isn't the Knights' year. I don't see them winning the region unless they beat Dunbar (duh!) and then get a favorable draw in the regional tournament. Something about them just gives me the feeling that they are a bad shooting night away from going home early because this year they just don't have the kind of overwhelming talent that they have had in the past.

 

I think Coach Salsman is a great coach who does a wonderful job, so don't think it's that I don't think the Knights are good or that it's on him. More than anything, I just think that the Knights wind up being the victims of their past success, as this is the type of year where lots of the field is at or near the same level as they are, and lots of those teams will have the extra motivation of being the one who gets to dismount of the Kings of the 11th from their throne.

 

While I'm not going to be conventional and pick the Knights to win the 11th, I'm not saying that I know the team who sends them home is either, and, even if they do go home, it most certainly is guaranteed to be Dunbar who sends them. This one should be a great matchup and is one of the District games that I most look forward to, so it's probably best to just let it unfold and enjoy the ride.

 

 

 

#1. Lexington Christian Academy vs. Winner of #4. Lafayette/ #5. Tates Creek:

 

Lexington Christian Academy is led by one of the State's best in 6'4 wing Matt Rose, and one of the region's most underrated in 6'7 forward Drew Trimble, each a Senior looking to go out with the school's first ever district and regional title. Throw in 6'3 Sr. Benton Nighbert, 6'4 8th grader Kyle Rode, 6'5 So. Trey King, and you've got one of the tallest teams in the State. Those lineups can frustrate others, and could wind up being the difference. Senior guards Drew Schacht and John Stein are each integral parts of a deep unit.

 

The scary thing about LCA is that, were it not for an injury to forward Trevor Hill, they'd be even bigger and more talented. In his absence, the play of Rode has been somewhat of a revelation for the Eagles, who knew what they've be getting from Rose and Trimble. The development of Tre King, who is just beginning to scratch the surface of his ultimate potential as he sheds the "soft" label, has also been a catalyst in the Eagles success.

 

The Eagles are big, shoot the ball well, can beat you on the backboards with their size, and generally play pretty smart. Rose is, in my opinion, a fairly underrated athlete, as it isn't unusual to see him rip off a two handed jam in traffic. In crunch time, they can put it in Rose's hands and trust him to get the ball where he wants it for the shot he wants to take, and they are more than comfortable with him doing just that.

 

From a strategic standpoint, you'd like to see the Eagles take better care of the ball, as they have a tendency to waste/lose too many possessions to turnovers, especially ones that are converted into opposition points at the other end. Past how well they take care of the ball and wishing that they'd show a more refined shot selection, there isn't much else to dislike about this team unless you really want to start ni

 

While LCA is capable, and everyone has to start somewhere, it's also kind of hard to see a team who hasn't been to the regional tournament before getting there and winning it on their first try, especially in a region as competitive as the 11th. LCA hasn't won the district before, much less the region. A motivational quote that has stuck with me is that "a master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried". Fortunately for LCA, there are a host of schools near the top who are in the same boat as them when talking about the kids currently in the programs at Dunbar, and, to a lesser extent, Bryan Station as well.

 

To the above point, philosophers call "the gambler's fallacy" (or the Monte Carlo fallacy) is the mistaken belief that, if something happens more frequently than normal during a set period, it will happen less frequently in the future (or vice-versa). However, if we are talking about truly random situations, then this is just what the name implies-- a fallacy. Just because the 11th Region drew the 12th Region this year, they still have the same 1 in 15 chance of drawing them again next year. The same would be true even if they'd drawn them 10 years in a row. Though it's appealing to the mind to think, "oh, this has to balance out at some point", and repeating it as a scientific experiment would show that if it were truly random, then we'd expect a fairly even distribution if we performed it millions of times, there's still a 1 in 15 chance that the 11th draws the 12th for even a 40th straight year.

 

Whether or not you believe that the gambler's fallacy applies to something like the regional tournament where the experience of going in previous years probably disqualifies some of the elements of true randomness, at least given that from a behavioristic standpoint, you've learned to adapt to the pressure and become familiar with the routine that you'd need to follow in order to win, I think it's fair to mention it in a discussion about how LCA's past results might not be completely indicative of what they are capable of this season.

Edited February 19, 201511 yr by JokersWild24

Best district in the state will make for an exciting tournament.

 

Would like to point out that Dunbar has made the Regional Tournament quite recently, 2 years ago they won the district tournament. That was the team with Mike Smith and EJ Floreal. They had lost to LexCath twice in the regular season (getting blown out once) but were very talented and finished the year strong. They did end up losing to Henry Clay in the 1st round of Regions but that Henry Clay team was a state title contender.

Best district in the state will make for an exciting tournament.

 

Would like to point out that Dunbar has made the Regional Tournament quite recently, 2 years ago they won the district tournament. That was the team with Mike Smith and EJ Floreal. They had lost to LexCath twice in the regular season (getting blown out once) but were very talented and finished the year strong. They did end up losing to Henry Clay in the 1st round of Regions but that Henry Clay team was a state title contender.

 

That was another year that a handful of teams from the 11th could have likely won at state, but didn't make it out of districts and region. Madison Central with Hawkins won that year, but it could have just as easily had been Dunbar, Henry Clay, or Catholic.

Awesome preview. Thanks.

I know its picky but its Jarod Griffin (only one "r" in his first name)

I know its picky but its Jarod Griffin (only one "r" in his first name)

 

No worries. I'm a perfectionist. Fixed it in the article already.

Tates Creek regional drought actually goes back to 1991. It's the only one in school history. The Commodores, led by Darrin Horn, lost to Fairdale in the state championship game.

Tates Creek regional drought actually goes back to 1991. It's the only one in school history. The Commodores, led by Darrin Horn, lost to Fairdale in the state championship game.

 

You are absolutely correct. That's what I get for going off memory in my old age.

 

Growing up in Clay County, I should have known Lexington Catholic was the 1992 representative for the 11th (that's one that people back home talk about as having gotten away, as the legend has it that CC had beaten all three semifinalists by double digits earlier that season).

 

That's probably why I blocked that one out of my mind.

 

:idunno:

The Quick and Dirty - #5 Tates Creek:

 

Pros:

Has beaten Lafayette this season. Playing the district at home. Wayne Breeden. Jordan Fucci will be more than fine matching up with Jenkins, so the Generals will have to run most of the offense through others to be most effective. They will have a solid gameplan, will look to grind things to a halt, and have some seniors who won't want the Lafayette game to be their last.

 

Cons:

They are the #5 seed because they only won one district game. Because of the style they play, they really aren't built to play from behind, so an 8-10 point run by Lafayette run could be fatal. Don't know how their confidence is considering, or how they would handle a big Lafayette burst like the one I just mentioned. If they are hit with a big run and think "well, this is what's supposed to happen", then you can slam the door shut. The win over Lafayette might be a bad thing insofar as it means Lafayette won't be overlooking them.

The Quick and Dirty - #4 Lafayette:

 

Pros:

Nice depth and great balance. Jenkins, Lucky, Lane, Downey, Carpenter, and Jenkins are all capable of giving you 10+ on any given night. They have the experience of being the hunted from their time last season, better chemistry this season, and can look at a narrow loss to Henry Clay in the first round of regionals as motivation and that there's "unfinished business". They have to play Tates Creek the first game, but honestly, I can see that being a positive for them insofar as the above mentioned Lexington-Fayette Public Schools policy that has kept them from practicing. They get a game where they'll be favored to shake off some rust. There's a chance they lose that game, but if they win, then it could wind up being a good thing given that there have been so many cancellations lately and that teams will be coming off some fairly long layoffs. Finally, they have HUGE momentum right now with the streak they are riding coming into the game and the victory over Trinity still fresh.

 

 

Cons:

I think it's fair to ask "who'll get the ball to take the last shot" if that's what it comes to. If it's drawing up a set play, then you think they would be likely to run some action off the ball to get Lane free and have someone get him the ball in a situation where he's hopefully got a clean look. If they need a three in that situation, then everyone in the gym is going to assume he's probably getting the ball. Fair. However, if there's :30 seconds and you are down one with the ball buthave no timeouts, I don't see Lane as a guy you hand the ball at half court, send the rest of the team to the baseline and get in your typical "1-4 flat" look, let Lane stand there and dribble until the clock goes down to :11 or :07 (whatever your preference to "go" on is), and come away saying "that's exactly what we wanted".

 

If not Lane, who do you go to? Jenkins is on the block and will need someone to get him the ball, and the opposition is going to see action going that way as the play develops and try to prevent that. He did it against Trinity, and it worked, so there's that. It's still not a situation that I'd prefer over having Tisdale, Rose, or Williams, and sending my team into a "1-4 flat" look like I mentioned above knowing that I can leave the game living with what happened and that I took what was probably my best shot.

 

Deciding who you want to "takeover" a game late, a year where they've been inconsistent overall, and foul trouble to Jenkins would be my 3 biggest concerns as a fan of the Generals.

The Quick and Dirty - #3 Dunbar:

 

Pros:

Darius Williams and Taveion Hollingsworth are the best duo in the region, and I'm not sure that it's even close. Both can light it up and the Dawgs won't be out of many games, even if they get down some, just because of that. Trey Penny, Jordan Lewis, and Justin Kelly have all been playing well as of late. Dontell Brown is pretty underrated and anchors things inside.

 

A solid, guard oriented team with two of the region's best scorers is a dangerous thing in tournament play. Williams is the kind of good where you don't plan on stopping him, you just hope to contain him. Hollingsworth is almost on that level right now too.

 

If their guards play and Brown stays out of foul trouble, they'll be in any game and it's going to take an unreal blitz from someone to actually put them down. Catholic had a huge lead on them early on in their first contest, but Dunbar came back from it. What that means is you've got a team who will be in it with you for four quarters and then has the region's most dangerous one-on-one player and his first team sidekick to contend and try match score-for-score with down the stretch.

 

 

Cons:

The snow time is going to hurt them. They are a team who was just starting to hit their stride, and one who hasn't played together all year and could probably still use some games and practice time to mesh.

 

It's just inevitable that someone holds either Williams and/or Hollingsworth in check "enough" (or they are just slightly cold and having a bad game by their standards). If they do that, and are successful, then it means Dunbar is going to be counting on some kids to step up, whether it be Penny, Lewis, Kelly, Brown, whoever. That can be done, but it's not a sure thing either.

 

 

In Catholic's approach, I look for some kind of strategy to force the ball out of Hollingsworth and Williams' hands, then deny them from getting it back. They could take that approach and try to go about it different ways:

 

• Maybe it's trapping out on the floor and then leaving one of the two defenders with Hollingsworth/Williams to deny from there;
  
• 
  
• Maybe it's making them handle against pressure and doing so in a way that dares a kid like Penny, Lewis, or Kelly to attack the pressure once they get the ball;
  
• 
  
• Maybe it's shortening the game by making it a chess match by choosing to be more conservative in their 2-2-1, retreating and playing safe instead of looking to run hard traps while the defense rotates and sweeps passing lanes looking for steals and they play it in a way where Dunbar has to take 7-8 seconds getting it across half court, then has to reset their offense once there, thus giving Lexington Catholic a perfect opportunity to then reset into their half court defensive scheme;
  
• 
  
• Maybe once they get into the half court, they use a kid like Ogbogu or Morris that is one of their better athletes and have them stick Williams or Hollingsworth and do all they can one-on-one in a way that it kind of washes one of the two stars and makes the other star play a game where it's then four-on-four and the rest of the defense is schemed to stop him.
  

 

How they do that is anyone's guess on some levels, but you know that Salsman will have something. If I had to guess, I'm going to say that the last two options are fair guesses, but given that the first game was fairly low scoring, and the second wasn't one where Catholic was barely above their average on the year, and you see what I'm basing the "shortened" game guess on.

 

 

What I'm trying to get at with this is that I think that if there's a model for beating Dunbar, then Lexington Catholic and their staff is the one that I'll give a pretty good chance of showing what that is. Where that becomes even more dangerous could be when a team that has more overall athleticism than the Knights takes that approach and emulates it by applying it's principles to their own strategy.

Edited February 21, 201511 yr by JokersWild24

The Quick and Dirty - #2 Lexington Catholic:

 

Pros:

Solid team, nice amount of depth, very well coached, and play a system that they know extremely well. Tanner Johnson is getting back on track and recently broke out of his shooting slump. If he hits a shot or two, then takes a heat check and that goes down, well... that could mean game, set, match. As a team, they'll hit their free throws, which is huge in tournament play, especially down the stretch of those games where you need to protect your lead.

 

 

Cons:

Not a very big team overall, and I think they are susceptible on the glass. LCA crushed Catholic on the boards in their last contest and in lots of the city games, you never really see Catholic dominating the backboards. Michael Talbott isn't big for his position, nor is Reese Ryan. Jarod Griffin has adequate size for a guard and Tanner Johnson has the same for a wing/forward, but neither are really kids I think of as animals on the boards. Boothe is not especially bulky, plus is fairly inexperienced, and only averages 3.5 boards per. Whitman has potential, but is most likely a year away. The one kid that I really like on the glass for them is JJ Ogbogu, but if you are going to play him, you are sacrificing on the offensive end where he's just raw, or at least from what I've seen, hasn't shown tons of skills that make him a capable scorer. Morris is a kid like Ogbogu, a football player, relatively athletic compared to their other kids, but unlike Ogbogu, has a more polished offensive repertoire while not being as tenacious a rebounder.

 

What this tells me is that they are reliant on outside shooting for their scoring to a concerning degree considering that they are a team who doesn't rebound the ball very well.

 

One off night for Johnson (21.7 PPG), or even a subpar night from Griffin (11.7 PPG) or Talbott (9.7) could mean an immediate exit. Outside of those three kids, there aren't really scorers. Ryan is more a garbage man, glue guy type who'll get some putbacks and maybe hit an open jumper or two if you dare him to take it, but he's not really the kind of kid you run offense for.

 

Talbott, while quick, shows a tendency to be fairly one-handed with the ball, and is a kid I could see one of city schools shutting out by putting a really athletic kid on him and absolutely daring him to go (and stay) left. Griffin is a lefty with a smooth shot who is solid fundamentally, but is the kind of player who could be held in check by an athletic defender as well.

 

I'm fairly confident that Catholic wouldn't want to play a game in the 70's where they were basically getting 22 from Johnson, seeing Griffin or Talbott held to half their average and seeing the other of those two slightly above theirs. I say that because I don't know that their role players and bench can score enough to keep them in the 70's with Johnson at 22 and one role player struggling.

 

What I'm trying to get at here, looking at this critically in terms of game planning and strategy: I see a team that only has 3 kids averaging double figures (with Talbott actually being at 9.7), no one else on the roster is what I'd consider to be a "dangerous" offensive threat, they don't rebound well as a team and are reliant on outside shooting. OK? Got it. Then I take my chances by trying to completely shut out the #2 or #3 threat and cut his 10-12 average to around half of that even if the other of those get his and a few more. If I can do so in a way that keeps their #1 and one of the leading scorers in the region at or near his average, then I look at doing it. I say that because I don't think it's really possible to completely shut Johnson down; I'm not saying you let him "get his" because if you do that, he will really burn you. What I'm saying is that I think you make Johnson "earn his" average, with the primary focus being on shutting down one of the two primary options, then making them beat you in a shootout.

 

Maybe that's not the best approach. Maybe it's not even possible. I just think of that because I think if Johnson is in the zone and having one of his 40 point games, then you are going to have a tough time winning anyway. I just have my eye on him and hope he doesn't kill me, but I think the real key is keeping making one of those #2/3 scorers be the star while keeping the other in check and taking your chances with their other role players offensively.

The Quick and Dirty - #1 Lexington Christian Academy:

 

Pros:

Huge size overall. Can play big lineups, but also have some guards in their rotation who are solid, steady types and can do some things as well, so they don't have to rely on just bullying people with their size either.

 

They have the region's Player of the Year in Matt Rose to ride during crunch time, and I think by now you know how I feel about having a guy you clear out for late.

 

I really like Drew Trimble's game and think he can cause some mismatches. Kyle Rode has been coming along and if he's making good decisions with the ball and exercising good shot selection, they are tough to beat.

 

LCA is more athletic than people probably give them credit for. I say that because I think people look at them and discount guys like Rose and Trimble, who are not out of place in athletic games in the least. King shows flashes of athleticism, and you can tell it's there for him as well. Finally, I wouldn't really consider Rode a "bad" athlete either.

 

Oh yea... did I mention they are huge? They'll try to batter people on the backboards, and did just that in their last game against Catholic.

 

 

Cons:

Overall, I don't know if this team "knows" how to win, at least to the extent that the champ of the 11th will probably have to show. I think they know how to win games, but I don't know if they know how to win tournaments, if that makes sense. They really haven't been in this situation before, so it's all new to them. A big victory over Catholic was followed up by a disappointing loss to GRC.

 

Rode is young and sometimes can try to do a little too much and/or force some things that aren't necessarily there. Tre King is a very talented, but still somewhat enigmatic big man. I think he's finally shedding the "soft" label that I'd heard rumblings of over the summer, but he still doesn't show the kind of consistency insofar as dominating games or stringing together a number of good performances. He's still young and that will come with time though.

 

Some of their other guards like Stein, Schact, and even Neighbert are probably going to really struggle against a team like Lafayette's guards, whether it's against the pressure that the teams are going to put on them when they have the ball or it's having to match up with them defensively. The defensive aspect is fine to a degree because their size inside can make up for that to an extent, but I think their downfall ends up being too many turnovers and not enough stops when they play a team like Lafayette where they have to keep Lucky, Carpenter, and Jenkins out of the lane and the help that steps up when they do has to account for a Jenkins too (or the wings sagging down are leaving Lane or Downey). Offensively, Lafayette is probably going to try and get after them hard with full or three quarter court pressure. They have quick guards that I have my reservations about some of the aforementioned being as strong with the ball as they need to be against, especially considering that Lafayette likes to trap and let Lucky sit back and play free safety, sweeping passing lanes if you try and throw over them. At some point, I think that LCA probably has to rely on Rose and Trimble to handle the ball against some of the pressure they'll face unless I'm underestimating Rode and company based on my observations.

 

Kind of a tangent, but the team I think who presents the worst matchup for LCA for the reasons mentioned above is either Lafayette or Bryan Station. In Station, I think Iit would be hard for LCA to have to keep Walker, Davis, and Carson out of the lane when the help stepping up when someone gets beat has to account for a Claitt or Dishman at the rim too. It will also be really hard for their guards, whether it be Rode, Stein, Schact, or Neighbert to handle the pressure and be as strong with the ball as they need to be when they're getting trapped or hounded with in-your-face on-ball D. The Eagles could counter some of that with zone and/or packing in all their size and daring the Defenders to shoot them out of it, but that hypothetical matchup is one that wouldn't happen until region, but kind of helps further illustrate some of the points I've made with Lafayette. In Lafayette, Lane's playing takes away some of the athleticism that the Defenders have in pressing, but his shooting touch is more advantageous in stretching the floor if LCA packs back into a tight zone and dares the opposition to shoot.

Awesome preview. Ill be up at EKU next week for training. While i'll miss my local 3rd region, im thinking about taking in some 11th region action. Region is absolutely loaded!

from what I am hearing the FCPS city schools were only allowed to practice on Sunday. Not sure about Lexington Catholic or LCA.