Not sure why this State Tournament matters SO deeply to you and Dallaslaredo. HHS is not an "A" school, so move on and pay the tournament no mind. Let the "A" schools that have a problem with the tournament speak up. Not sure I've heard anything negative from any "A" school backers.

And as far the same 2-3 schools coming out of the same regions every year. Just curious how many "A" schools are in these regions to begin with.

 

This has nothing to do with HHS AT ALL.

Region 1

 

Boys Side:

5 times Murray, St. Mary, Heath, Mayfield

2 Hickman County and Carlisle County

1 Ballard Memorial and Fulton County

 

Girls side

12 Murray

3 Ballard Memorial

2 Mayfield, St. Mary, Fulton Co.

1 Heath and Hickman County

 

ON the boys a lot of times have went, Murray has dominated the girls but several others have won as well.

 

Thats in one region. And I did not look at the boys side at all. So I have no clue about them.

RCC9 - please report to the principal's office. :brb:

I'm going to give you several models, and RCC, I'm counting on you to let me know which alternative shows some promise:

 

1) A pure small school tournament, 200 enrollment under.

2) 1A football classification schools only

3) Take the current enrollment restrictions, don't go by the 16 regions, but go instead by a Western public region, a Louisville public region, NKY -Lexington public region, and Eastern public region, and the corresponding regions for private. Take the two finalists from each and seed and draw like we do regional tournaments.

4) Two tournaments for the smallest 100 and next smallest 100 schools respectively

5) Keep it as is except make regional champs sit out the next year.

 

My favorite is #3

 

I think all may be improvements except 5. The reason 5 doesn't work is because a strong team this year, can be an average team next...in high school. Prime example...HC loses 4 very impactful seniors and not to hurt their feelings, but they will be average next year. They shouldn't be penalized next year for what this loaded team did this year.

 

As for 4...if you're going to do that, we should just keep going then and make classifications for bball. Which I'm not for or against.

 

As for the other 3, I think its a start to a good improvement. If you could come up with at way to evaluate teams quickly, then it could be a true invitational that has "like" small schools competing for something that would be nice for those small school kids. It wouldn't be that hard to be able to evaluate them. Keep in mind, if you lower the numbers, understand that some would be very easily identified as "out" or "in", you really only have a tough decision on a small number of teams.

 

For example, let's say you got it down to 100 teams (just to make it an easy number). 75 of those teams would be no-brainers and in the tournament. There might be 10 that you say, "they can clearly compete in their region this year and have as good as a shot of winning the region as 3-4 other teams. Then you might have the rest that are borderline and need more evaluation. In that scenario, you are only down to 15 teams to look at. I would say a borderline team in this year's teams would be teams like Bracken or Gallatin on the girls side. Will/can they compete for a regional title this year in their region?? I don't know. That would be for a committee to decide. But they wouldn't have that many to have to pick through.

 

Please understand that I'm not against the All A (anymore). I've seen the light. I just wish it was for the true small schools.

RCC9 - please report to the principal's office. :brb:

 

I'm not bashing, I'm trying to improve it! The people that take offense to what I'm saying now are connected to the perennial powerhouses. I'm rooting for the true little guy!

I am just having a chuckle with myself that Holy Cross and the word "powerhouse" are being used in the same sentence. Does everybody realize that the Indians have won this only once for boys (2012) and only once for girls (2015)?

Okay, track. Maybe some other one.

 

Cross Country

About the only ones that have a problem with the All A are ones that are not involved with it.

I'm not saying only the NKY schools win it. I did the research awhile back. In just about every region, the regions have always been won by 1-2 teams over a long period of time. Some stretched to 3, but about 85 percent of the time, each region is won by one of the same two teams. I'm not talking about just NKY.

 

As far as if my kids went to a small school I'd love it...probably right. But they don't. They go to a medium sized school. Why don't they get a chance to experience that environment? No, not jealousy, so don't go there. Just using an example. My daughter is on her 4th varsity year and has never gone to state of won a region and has played on some really good teams. And she may not this year or next. I don't care. You have to earn that prestige. That's why it's so special when you do. But guess who they will have to go through this year to win it...Holy Cross...you know...the team that just won the A state championship that is set up to provide a chance for teams that don't otherwise have a chance to compete. Again, make it for the true small community teams and I feel like it's a beautiful thing! But when the same teams win their region every year and the same teams show up at the state, it's not doing what it's intended to do and people promote with false reasons. Saying this tournament is for smalls schools that wouldn't have a chance to experience an event like this is not really that true. Yes, maybe the occasional exception, but not the norm. There are 1000's of kids (regardless of school size) that will never make it to a state championship tournament. Heck, I think there are close to 300 schools in KY and only about 30 different schools have ever won the state. That's a lot of kids that didn't get their chance to ever experience it. If that's the reason for the tournament, then make it for the schools that don't have a chance. If it's not, then let's go to classes in basketball...and even if you did that...there would still be 1000's of kids that don't get to experience it. It should be an honor to make it. So if Etown wins the state, who is the state champion? Etown won't care a bit. But why only one other class should be able to claim it.

 

If you want to know what I'd do...well I would start by lowering the student attendance number down to true A schools. That starts to eliminate some of the larger 2A schools that happen to have a lot of success in this A tournament. Then, I would truly make it an invitational where you are invited by a committee that oversees the teams. If you are expected to have a year like HC, they you don't get invited. You could even send out invites in December after some games are played. That way you would be able to tell is a borderline team is for real or not. I know you'll say, well what about scheduling. Well it's really not that hard. If you have a team like HC, you know you're not going to get invited when the time comes. If you have a team like Bellevue, you know you are going to be invited. There will be some borderline teams, but not as many as you think. Those teams are the ones that would have to get creative with their scheduling. You have a little unknown. But you do today as well. You have no idea if you're going to advance in the tournament. And there are always other games cancelled around this time of the year. So if you are unsure if you will be picked or not, you could still schedule games in the late part of the week and cancel if you needed to.

 

Again, I do think this is a great event. I really do! And I have truly been educated on here by many and do see it in a different light now. But I do wish it could be worked out to really be for the small teams that don't get opportunity. I'm sure it's a blast for the couple of teams that consistently make a run in this tournament. But it would be even better if teams like Ludlow, Bellevue, Dayton, Augusta, Calvery, Villa were making these runs every year. That would be awesome!

 

You make some valid points but where do you draw the line with enrollment, its kinda like football and I know we keep bringing that up but there is truth to it. In 2A and 4A teams know that whey have to go through NCC or Highlnds with no chance of ever winning but wasn't it nice for a lot of people to see Holy Cross take down NCC of few years ago and for Collins to beat Highlands 2 years ago, the All A provides that opportunity and yes not always but it has happened just like in football.

 

I agree there are some holes in the system but there are holes in every system. Look at it this way there are college that get a chance to watch some of these kids that wouldn't get a chance to other wise. I personally wish basketball would go to classses to give other schools a chance to win State titles like football becasue lets face for some it will never happen and its hard to compete year in and year out with the Louisville teams. Just think of the money the state would make it.

Just think of the money the state would make it.

 

Money is one of the reasons why they don't class Basketball. The Sweet Sixteen is the major money maker for the KHSAA.

Let me be straight forward - my one and only issue with the All-A is with semantics. It's the word "State"

 

I'll paraphrase what is saw posted awhile back somewhere on here that I agree with . . . to you, and I, and people in the know, we all know there's only 1 KHSAA State Champ in almost all sports (football classes are a separate discussion). But to the broader population, and to some extent the media, there is no difference in perception between the All-A winner calling themselves, or being called "State Champs" and the KHSAA State Champs.

 

And call me petty, call me whatever, but I love the fact that there's only 1 official State Champ in KY in almost every sport, determined in a true statewide tourney. And whoever wins it is going to have to go through a gauntlet to do so. And that team deserves, in the minds of the general public, to be the sole owner of that title. So when a different team wins a regular season tournament (one that frankly excludes the top teams in the state) and fans, parents, and sometimes (but not always) the schools themselves hail it as a "State Championship" I have a problem with that. Because it does happen..we've all seen it. It gets inflated. Banners, T-Shirts, etc. Celebrate the win? Sure. But does the winner of the LIT or the Traditional Bank Holiday Classic hang a banner and call it a "State Championship"?

 

I don't get caught up in the "Hoosiers" romantic feelings towards small school sports. You can't tell me that the level of play at the All-A is better than the LIT. The girls at E-Town, Ashland Blazer, Henderson County, Holmes, and Highlands work just as hard and earn every accolade they get.

 

So have fun, celebrate the tourney, hand out the scholarships, and crown the champs - just call them the "All-A Champs" or "All-A Tournament Champs"

Someone from one of the perennial powerhouse "A" schools must have really rubbed the HHS guys the wrong way. Since when was anyone from HHS interested in the wrongs being done to the "true little guy"? LOL

About the only ones that have a problem with the All A are ones that are not involved with it.

 

Not saying this to be mean...you are correct. But why would anyone that IS involved say anything negative about having two opportunities at state titles??? I have no problem with the event. But we either have classifications for state titles for everyone or we don't.

 

And I'm being silly here, but don't medium sized schools have a discrimination case here??? I know, this is where the conversation turns into "it's not a KHSAA event and it's not a state title, really. It's an invitational". It is an invitational until we start calling them state champs and the scoreboard list the tournament as the A state championship. Don't really want to go down this path cause I know all the answers that are coming. But I'm just using this as to debate your comment.

Let me be straight forward - my one and only issue with the All-A is with semantics. It's the word "State"

 

I'll paraphrase what is saw posted awhile back somewhere on here that I agree with . . . to you, and I, and people in the know, we all know there's only 1 KHSAA State Champ in almost all sports (football classes are a separate discussion). But to the broader population, and to some extent the media, there is no difference in perception between the All-A winner calling themselves, or being called "State Champs" and the KHSAA State Champs.

 

And call me petty, call me whatever, but I love the fact that there's only 1 official State Champ in KY in almost every sport, determined in a true statewide tourney. And whoever wins it is going to have to go through a gauntlet to do so. And that team deserves, in the minds of the general public, to be the sole owner of that title. So when a different team wins a regular season tournament (one that frankly excludes the top teams in the state) and fans, parents, and sometimes (but not always) the schools themselves hail it as a "State Championship" I have a problem with that. Because it does happen..we've all seen it. It gets inflated. Banners, T-Shirts, etc. Celebrate the win? Sure. But does the winner of the LIT or the Traditional Bank Holiday Classic hang a banner and call it a "State Championship"?

 

I don't get caught up in the "Hoosiers" romantic feelings towards small school sports. You can't tell me that the level of play at the All-A is better than the LIT. The girls at E-Town, Ashland Blazer, Henderson County, Holmes, and Highlands work just as hard and earn every accolade they get.So have fun, celebrate the tourney, hand out the scholarships, and crown the champs - just call them the "All-A Champs" or "All-A Tournament Champs"

 

If anyone compares the All "A" to the LIT, then they really don't know basketball, and I haven't heard of anyone doing that. Again, it appears based on the other sentence bolded, that you're insinuating that other schools are not being recognized for their accomplishments, and that the All "A" has something to do with that.

Someone from one of the perennial powerhouse "A" schools must have really rubbed the HHS guys the wrong way. Since when was anyone from HHS interested in the wrongs being done to the "true little guy"? LOL

 

Well you talking to one right now. Sorry to disappoint you. I said it last year and I'll say it again, I could be a Dayton High School grad and fan and still feel exactly the same way. I could care less if HHS ever participates in an All A event. Please tell me why HHS has anything to do with this conversation. If you think it's jealousy, you couldn't be farther from the truth.