Did anyone else want to rip their TV off the wall last night watching the horrible tackling by some of the Bengals? I think it was Nelson who I seen in a span of 3 plays, one including a TD by the Pats that I saw him simply lower his head and try to "Ram" the ball carrier like a Mountain Goat, 1 time he completely whiffed as if he had his eyes closed, which he probably did, and the next time he bounced off Gronk's leg like a pinball. Not even extending his arms to wrap up, it was purely lowering his head, keeping his arms at his side and trying to head butt the hip of the offensive player. If a pee wee player tries to tackle like that he'd be yanked off the field and never see the field again until he learned to tackle properly.

 

Take a look at this great tackling seminar put on by Nelson on this TD. This was his 1st TD, his last TD was even worse by Nelson. Pathetic

 

New England Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski 16-yard TD reception - NFL Videos

I am a Reggie Nelson fan but I agree with you HB that something was wrong with Nelson last night. On the TD my girl and I even watched it several times to determine if Nelson was either taking a cheap shot at a knee or just giving up on the play. In his steps prior to the hit there appeared to be a split second of indecision but on the whole I thought it was a very bad tackle from a fundamental standpoint. Nelson should have drove his body right through Gronk's hips with his head across Gronk's body.

 

On the other hand, I believe when Burfict is out Nelson tries to step up as the leader of the defense. He came out over emotional last night, then something changed in his demeanor and he wasn't near the player he normally is for the Bengals.

 

Great observation HB.

Where to begin.

 

Offense D- where do I begin. Yes some started to already shield Dalton from any blame last night, sorry it isn't going to work to try and hide him from any blame. Yes he threw 2 TD's which is the only reason the offense didn't get a F-. that along with Gio's running is the reason the offense doesn't even get an F. With that said, yes Dalton had 2 TD's but he also missed 2 others. Had a wide open Sanu for a TD when he decided to throw into double coverage to AJ and he also missed a wide open Gio who had 2 yards on his defender as he's streaking down the sideline with no one in front of him to prevent him from scoring. Dalton was just as much to blame than anyone on offense. Gresham....where do I begin, he drops another pass which would have resulted in a TD. I believe Gresham has more dropped passes than any other TE in Bengals history...I'm serious.

 

 

I agree with everything except what you said about Dalton. The Bengals sucked at every phase last night and just completely got their butt kicked. However Dalton actually played the way that everyone has wanted Dalton to play like in a big game. People say they want him to be a game manager. A game manager doesn't make perfect throws all the time, or else they wouldn't be considered a game manager. However he did what people said they wanted. He for once didn't seem to get swallowed by the moment. He missed a few throws, but overall he played a solid, smart game. He didn't force the ball or make stupid throws to cost the team. He threw two touchdowns, and should have been three if Greshman didn't suck.

 

So Dalton wasn't great, but he was what people wanted him to be last night. The sad part is that everyone else sucked, and he is not a QB who will lead a big comeback.

I am disappointed in how bad they played. However I am a little positive about the play from Dalton. Dalton has been a big problem in big games, and last night I felt like he played the type of game we been wanting him to play. The overall team won't suck like they did last night, so I was at least encouraged to see Dalton play a decent game under the lights for once.

I am disappointed in how bad they played. However I am a little positive about the play from Dalton. Dalton has been a big problem in big games, and last night I felt like he played the type of game we been wanting him to play. The overall team won't suck like they did last night, so I was at least encouraged to see Dalton play a decent game under the lights for once.

 

Not sure what game you watched but in the first half especially Dalton was horrible You can't miss wide open receivers for TDs time and time again in this league and expect to win big games.

 

FC you said it yourself that you were concerned with how Dalton would play in big games because he has failed in the past. Well this was a big game and he failed ... Again.

Not sure what game you watched but in the first half especially Dalton was horrible You can't miss wide open receivers for TDs time and time again in this league and expect to win big games.

 

FC you said it yourself that you were concerned with how Dalton would play in big games because he has failed in the past. Well this was a big game and he failed ... Again.

 

Not sure what game you watched, but Dalton did exactly what you and other have said you wanted him to do and that is to manage the game. People get labeled as game managers because they can't always make the throws that are needed. Hence why they are called game managers, if they could always make those accurate throws all the time they wouldn't need to be labeled as a game manager. Yes no doubt he missed a few throws early, I even said that. However he also didn't force any bad throws like he has in big games in the past. Also unlike big games in the past he also threw some touchdowns for a change, and should have had three if Gresham could catch a dang ball.

 

So which one is it. If you grade him thinking that he should perform like a good/top QB who can win you games, then yes he failed again. However you and like many other have said you wanted him to at least be a game manager, and he did exactly that which means he didn't fail last night. If the Bengals defense had played like they are capable and they don't have all those stupid fumbles, then Dalton's play suddenly looks good because he managed the game like people wanted. Instead the whole team sucked yesterday, so we needed Dalton to play great and he didn't do that. However that is not what people wanted from him, people wanted him to at least be a game manager and he did that.

I think those are very good points FC. Dalton never has and never will be a "carry the team on his shoulders" QB. Frankly, those are the elite QB's and there aren't many of them. He did play better than he has in other big games which is encouraging. I would love to have one of those elite QB's but until one comes along I'll take this type of game since I think with our running game and defense it will result in wins a lot more often than not. The fact of the matter is that AD hits the two missed TD's and Gresham catches the other one, we still lose.

Besides the opening couple of series, he was normal AD. The difference is he didn't throw a pick that was returned for 6. He absolutely received no help from the receivers. This team isn't built to come from behind by 2-3 scores. They need to get the lead and then that sets the field for their running game and pressure defense. They were on their heels from the get go. That was the worst defensive performance in a long long time. The Pats had guys wide open all over the place, no pressure on Brady and they ran draw plays for 20 yards.

 

It happens, move on. They are going to lose 3-5 more.

Not sure what game you watched, but Dalton did exactly what you and other have said you wanted him to do and that is to manage the game. People get labeled as game managers because they can't always make the throws that are needed. Hence why they are called game managers, if they could always make those accurate throws all the time they wouldn't need to be labeled as a game manager. Yes no doubt he missed a few throws early, I even said that. However he also didn't force any bad throws like he has in big games in the past. Also unlike big games in the past he also threw some touchdowns for a change, and should have had three if Gresham could catch a dang ball.

 

So which one is it. If you grade him thinking that he should perform like a good/top QB who can win you games, then yes he failed again. However you and like many other have said you wanted him to at least be a game manager, and he did exactly that which means he didn't fail last night. If the Bengals defense had played like they are capable and they don't have all those stupid fumbles, then Dalton's play suddenly looks good because he managed the game like people wanted. Instead the whole team sucked yesterday, so we needed Dalton to play great and he didn't do that. However that is not what people wanted from him, people wanted him to at least be a game manager and he did that.

 

I've said in the past and will say again for you to keep in your database that I want Dalton to use his progression and hit the open receiver and also to be able to hit a wide open receiver most of all.

 

There you go, now you have it and can save it so you know what I expect out of a NFL QB.

I've said in the past and will say again for you to keep in your database that I want Dalton to use his progression and hit the open receiver and also to be able to hit a wide open receiver most of all.

 

There you go, now you have it and can save it so you know what I expect out of a NFL QB.

 

Which is fine, and that is why I said if we expect him to be more than just a game manager which what you described above is not just a game manager. Then yes he did fail the other night. The things you said is what makes very good QB's and top QB's. Guys who don't lock on one guy, who do go through their progressions to find the open guy and then make an open throw. That is what top QB's do, and obviously in an ideal world that is exactly the type of QB we all would want.

 

However most of this talk this off season was how we needed him to not make those killer mistakes and be a game manager and not lose the games. His play last night was very similar to guys you and others had brought up on who were game managers that teams won with like Dilfer or Brad Johnson which you all referred to this off season and wanted him to at least be like. For that type of play that Dilfer brought, he needed the defense to play great, and have a strong running game. If those things didn't happen he wasn't going to help the team win either. A game manager QB is only good if all the other parts are doing well.

 

Dalton was exactly the type of QB people said they wanted and was a game manager in that game. I am not saying I am happy with it, because I wish he could be a QB who could always go through his progressions to find the open guy and then throw accurate passes. However the only guys who consistently do that are the top QB's in the NFL.

Which is fine, and that is why I said if we expect him to be more than just a game manager which what you described above is not just a game manager. Then yes he did fail the other night. The things you said is what makes very good QB's and top QB's. Guys who don't lock on one guy, who do go through their progressions to find the open guy and then make an open throw. That is what top QB's do, and obviously in an ideal world that is exactly the type of QB we all would want.

 

However most of this talk this off season was how we needed him to not make those killer mistakes and be a game manager and not lose the games. His play last night was very similar to guys you and others had brought up on who were game managers that teams won with like Dilfer or Brad Johnson which you all referred to this off season and wanted him to at least be like. For that type of play that Dilfer brought, he needed the defense to play great, and have a strong running game. If those things didn't happen he wasn't going to help the team win either. A game manager QB is only good if all the other parts are doing well.

 

Dalton was exactly the type of QB people said they wanted and was a game manager in that game. I am not saying I am happy with it, because I wish he could be a QB who could always go through his progressions to find the open guy and then throw accurate passes. However the only guys who consistently do that are the top QB's in the NFL.

 

 

 

We can win 10-11 games with Dalton as the game manager you described. The games we'll lose, most often, is when we get more than one score behind. AD isn't the type of QB that usually can overcome a 2 score plus deficit. When the defense plays as they did Sunday, well forget it. We won't win shootouts against most of the league.

 

It may parlay to a win in the playoffs, maybe not. Our defense will have to play lights out for us to win it all, however. He can't carry us to that. 1 turnover in 4 games from him is a big reason we are 3-1.

 

He is better than Dilfer and Brad Johnson, but not significantly. The Ravens and Bucs defenses were the primary reasons those teams won the SB with those two QB's.

We can win 10-11 games with Dalton as the game manager you described. The games we'll lose, most often, is when we get more than one score behind. AD isn't the type of QB that usually can overcome a 2 score plus deficit. When the defense plays as they did Sunday, well forget it. We won't win shootouts against most of the league.

 

It may parlay to a win in the playoffs, maybe not. Our defense will have to play lights out for us to win it all, however. He can't carry us to that. 1 turnover in 4 games from him is a big reason we are 3-1.

 

He is better than Dilfer and Brad Johnson, but not significantly. The Ravens and Bucs defenses were the primary reasons those teams won the SB with those two QB's.

 

I completely agree with you. I just know a lot of the talk this off season from people was that they wanted him to at least be a game manager, and they used how those two game managers were able to win Super Bowls. If that is how we want Dalton to be, then the other night Dalton did exactly that. Now if we want him to be a good/top QB who does go through the progressions to find the open receiver, and then make an accurate throw. Then the other night was a failure, and that was my point. He actually played the type of game people were wanting, because most people were counting on our defense which they will do well most of the time. But as you pointed out if the other parts don't do well, then having a QB who only manages the game doesn't help much.

Personally I do still think Dalton can be more than just a game manager, especially with the weapons this offense has when fully healthy. I think we the weapons this offense has, that there is no reason why we can't have a high scoring offense. However I was just pointing out the fact that Dalton did play that game manager type style that people wanted Dalton to at least do in big games.