:no: but it's all good, I don't have a horse in this race. Just stating a point.

 

Okay. Semantics.

Okay. Semantics.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]46709[/ATTACH]

 

 

Semantics. You say two-may-toe. I say ta-mah-toe

delete. My question was kind of answered once I started reading through the thread more.

Is there a union for IT workers? Is an IT worker even considered a labor job? Don't IT workers have college degrees? I've never seen an IT worker in a union. Not sure why they would need or want one.

I am not aware of an IT union. What difference does it make whether IT workers work with their muscles or their brains?

 

Based on what you have posted, there is no reason that big businesses would not be exploiting IT workers with low wages, is there? Are SEIU members manual laborers?

 

My point is that there is a shortage of skilled American programmers in this country, and companies like Microsoft, Apple, IBM, etc. have successfully lobbied the federal government to give thousands of visas to foreign workers to keep salaries from rising even higher.

 

If unions offered businesses a competitive edge through superior product quality, higher productivity, etc., then companies would not be flocking to right to work states. Don't get me wrong, the high tax rates and heavy regulations that are constantly being pushed by liberal politicians are also chasing companies out of states like California and most of the Rust Belt.

I am not aware of an IT union. What difference does it make whether IT workers work with their muscles or their brains?

 

Based on what you have posted, there is no reason that big businesses would not be exploiting IT workers with low wages, is there? Are SEIU members manual laborers?

 

My point is that there is a shortage of skilled American programmers in this country, and companies like Microsoft, Apple, IBM, etc. have successfully lobbied the federal government to give thousands of visas to foreign workers to keep salaries from rising even higher.

 

If unions offered businesses a competitive edge through superior product quality, higher productivity, etc., then companies would not be flocking to right to work states. Don't get me wrong, the high tax rates and heavy regulations that are constantly being pushed by liberal politicians are also chasing companies out of states like California and most of the Rust Belt.

 

I don't know what SEIU stands for.

 

Aren't a majority of IT employees college educated?

I waffle back and forth on this issue. I come from a family of union workers and grew up with the benefits my father being in the union provided. Then my 16 year old son had to join the union when he got a job at Kroger and I felt that unions were no longer needed because of the government regulations, laws and organizations in place. However, the longer the top 1% keep recovering from this recession while the bottom 60% continue to backslide because of the corporate strategy to withhold job creation and raising wages to affect AHCA, I come back around even stronger to the thought that unions ARE still needed.

 

I do think, at this point in my waffling, that one should have a choice. As PP2 points out, though, one does. So...now...where's the syrup?

I waffle back and forth on this issue. I come from a family of union workers and grew up with the benefits my father being in the union provided. Then my 16 year old son had to join the union when he got a job at Kroger and I felt that unions were no longer needed because of the government regulations, laws and organizations in place. However, the longer the top 1% keep recovering from this recession while the bottom 60% continue to backslide because of the corporate strategy to withhold job creation and raising wages to affect AHCA, I come back around even stronger to the thought that unions ARE still needed.

 

I do think, at this point in my waffling, that one should have a choice. As PP2 points out, though, one does. So...now...where's the syrup?

 

Gotcha.

 

I don't know what SEIU stands for.

 

Aren't a majority of IT employees college educated?

SEIU stands for Service Employees International Union and it represents 1.9 million workers in the U.S., Canada, and Puerto Rico. It is one of the largest sources for financing and staffing for the Democratic political campaigns.

 

Most IT workers have at least some college education but most IT work does not really require a degree, although many companies still require one. I have worked with some outstanding programmers who had little or no college education. One of the best of them did not graduate from high school but earned his GED. Do unions discriminate against college graduates?

SEIU stands for Service Employees International Union and it represents 1.9 million workers in the U.S., Canada, and Puerto Rico. It is one of the largest sources for financing and staffing for the Democratic political campaigns.

 

Most IT workers have at least some college education but most IT work does not really require a degree, although many companies still require one. I have worked with some outstanding programmers who had little or no college education. One of the best of them did not graduate from high school but earned his GED. Do unions discriminate against college graduates?

 

No but I'd say an enormous amount of people who are in a union do not have a college degree. Otherwise they'd likely have another profession. I know I would. I didn't grow up with intentions of being in a union and I know a lot of people just like me who didn't finish college and had to find a job and ended up not caring if the job we got was a union job or not. It's funny you ask that though because it seems college graduates discriminate against unions and thumb their nose at us and look down on us. I'll also add that most union folks with the college degrees are higher up the ladder than local president.

 

The point I am trying to make is that a lot of union members don't have the education that engineers, IT, human resources and many others in administrative and technical jobs have. Because of that those in the labor force are much easier to take advantage of than those with college degrees who are well versed on how the business world operates.

No but I'd say an enormous amount of people who are in a union do not have a college degree. Otherwise they'd likely have another profession. I know I would. I didn't grow up with intentions of being in a union and I know a lot of people just like me who didn't finish college and had to find a job and ended up not caring if the job we got was a union job or not. It's funny you ask that though because it seems college graduates discriminate against unions and thumb their nose at us and look down on us. I'll also add that most union folks with the college degrees are higher up the ladder than local president.

 

The point I am trying to make is that a lot of union members don't have the education that engineers, IT, human resources and many others in administrative and technical jobs have. Because of that those in the labor force are much easier to take advantage of than those with college degrees who are well versed on how the business world operates.

My father spent most of his life working as a Steelworker. I don't know any college graduates who look down their noses at union members. There are many, like me, who believe that union leaders often do not act in the best interests of their rank and file members.

 

If you think that having a college degree is proof that a person is well educated, then you are mistaken. There is not shortage of college educated idiots in this country, and I would argue that liberal college professors, in general, have a very poor understanding of how business is done in the private sector.

 

If people have a marketable skill, then they do not need to belong to a union to earn a good living - and unions cannot save anybody's job when an employer cannot operate profitably. Unions do not create jobs and they have not done much to save jobs either.

My father spent most of his life working as a Steelworker. I don't know any college graduates who look down their noses at union members. There are many, like me, who believe that union leaders often do not act in the best interests of their rank and file members.

 

If you think that having a college degree is proof that a person is well educated, then you are mistaken. There is not shortage of college educated idiots in this country, and I would argue that liberal college professors, in general, have a very poor understanding of how business is done in the private sector.

 

If people have a marketable skill, then they do not need to belong to a union to earn a good living - and unions cannot save anybody's job when an employer cannot operate profitably. Unions do not create jobs and they have not done much to save jobs either.

 

I know plenty of college graduates who do. Plenty. Hell, they'll tell you themselves.

 

A person can be an idiot and still be smart. I don't disagree that there are a lot of idiots walking around with college degrees. It doesn't make them stupid and unable to recognize when they are getting screwed over.

 

A marketable skill? Of course not. At Corning the union jobs aren't a marketable skill. Define a job that is a marketable skill for me.

 

Semantics. My union played a large part in getting union jobs into an incoming plant and we negotiated to make them union jobs. In my world that is creating and saving union/American jobs.

I know plenty of college graduates who do. Plenty. Hell, they'll tell you themselves.

 

A person can be an idiot and still be smart. I don't disagree that there are a lot of idiots walking around with college degrees. It doesn't make them stupid and unable to recognize when they are getting screwed over.

 

A marketable skill? Of course not. At Corning the union jobs aren't a marketable skill. Define a job that is a marketable skill for me.

 

Semantics. My union played a large part in getting union jobs into an incoming plant and we negotiated to make them union jobs. In my world that is creating and saving union/American jobs.

It's not semantics at all, no matter how many times you say that it is. Unless your check is signed by a union officer, then your job was not created by the union.

 

If the union did not exist, the job would still be there because Corning needs the work done.

It's not semantics at all, no matter how many times you say that it is. Unless your check is signed by a union officer, then your job was not created by the union.

 

If the union did not exist, the job would still be there because Corning needs the work done.

 

Okay.

 

Semantics.

 

I do get checks signed by union officers.

My father spent most of his life working as a Steelworker. I don't know any college graduates who look down their noses at union members. There are many, like me, who believe that union leaders often do not act in the best interests of their rank and file members.

 

If you think that having a college degree is proof that a person is well educated, then you are mistaken. There is not shortage of college educated idiots in this country, and I would argue that liberal college professors, in general, have a very poor understanding of how business is done in the private sector.

 

If people have a marketable skill, then they do not need to belong to a union to earn a good living - and unions cannot save anybody's job when an employer cannot operate profitably. Unions do not create jobs and they have not done much to save jobs either.

 

Agreed...all my family were IBEW electicians as was I during summers and Christmas for a while. It was always a career option for me. And, there were many days in management where the electrician path looked a lot better. Also, I think having worked in this way during and prior to gaining education and moving up the ladder helped me with communication and the empathy to work well with our hourly people and our union. At least that's my story...:lol2: