No one wants to get rid of middle class workers or unions, they just want to allow for something is very American, choice, based on your personal beliefs. I believe that if a person wants to belong to a union, go for it. On the other hand, if one does not want to join, then they should not be forced to join. Unions have helped to make the country better, but as with all pendulums, unions need to swing back to the center.

 

I still don't understand that logic. If you don't want to join a union then don't apply for that job. If a job is created by a union then you will need to join that union to get that job. That doesn't make sense. "I want this great job that was created by a union, maintained and reaping the benefits of being in a union but I don't want to join that union." That's asinine. To me that's no different that people wanting a handout for nothing. Yeah, you are right though. That's America in 2014.

But if being in a union is so great them wouldn't a person want to be in the union and not have to be coerced into joining?

 

You know my stance that I overall believe that unions are corrupt organizations that exist more now to enrich those at the top rather then the worker, in fact I would consider them as greedy and top heavy as the "evil" corporations that they love to vilify.

 

The entire business world is corrupt and without unions our country would be in worse shape and there wouldn't be a 1%. There would be a 10-15%.

Sounds like a like a liberal acquaintance who always just ignored the facts when his stance was challenged with the truth. The workers still had the right to organize, has nothing to do with your premise of coincidence.

 

Sounds like a conservative acquaintance who always ignores the facts when a stance opposite from theirs is challenged with the truth. The workers still have the right to organize so whether a state is Right-to-Work or not means absolutely nothing to anything positive or negative that happens business-wise in the state.

How many manufacturing in Kentucky are unionized anyways? GM, Corning...who else? Is Ford unionized? Toyota isn't are they? Hitachi isn't. Lexmark? They unionized? I wasn't aware that unionized manufacturing plants were dominating the manufacturing landscape in Kentucky to cause people to want mistakingly want Right-to-Work so badly.

 

Both Ford plants in Louisville are union. Toyota is not but to the best of my knowledge, the vast majority of Japanese plants are not. The plants that supply them generally are not either. I believe the Japanese try to avoid union suppliers. American Commercial Lines (across the river from Louisville) is union but would now be an open shop since Indiana is a right to work state. Pretty sure Philip Morris was union before the plant was shut down and think operations are either in Virginia or one of the Carolinas now. I don't believe there were good relations between Philip Morris and the union. I don't know if Budd (or whatever they are called now) is union. I would guess so but not sure. I believe all the rubber plants in Rubbertown in Louisville are union also. Dow, Dupont, I cannot remember the other's name. There are two large metal fabricators in Louisville. One is union the other isn't but the one that isn't was bought out by an Austrian company which the employees do not care for so unions may be trying to work their way in. Louisville has a pretty heavy union base, not as much as northern Ohio but certainly more than much of the State of KY. For some reason, people out in rural areas of the South don't seem to trust unions. My dad saw that when he lived in Elizabethtown back in the 50's.

So unions and working class people are synonymous? If they are so good, why do they put tens of millions of dollars into Dem's political coffers to support their cause? Why do they need protection? The federal government wage and hour laws, OSHA, NLRB and EEO do far more than any union to protect workers, and we already pay taxes for those. So why does an average worker need to be forced to pay union dues? It sounds like a protection racket. Toyota is the highest paying large employer in Central Kentucky. What union represents their employees?

 

The same reason the Right-to-Workers put tens of millions of dollars into republicans political coffers. To keep an even playing field. That's what unions do. Keep an even playing field. The education gap between union workers and corporations is huge. Without unions the less educated labor worker would be taken advantage of and manipulated by the higher educated people running the corporations. In some ways it could be a protection racket. A much needed one.

 

Toyota is a great example. They aren't unionized are they? Hmmmm, don't think so. Seems to me that is proof a large corporation can function in a state that isn't a Right-to-Work state. Hmmmm, so if that is case how does this state benefit from becoming Right-to-Work?

I still don't understand that logic. If you don't want to join a union then don't apply for that job. If a job is created by a union then you will need to join that union to get that job. That doesn't make sense. "I want this great job that was created by a union, maintained and reaping the benefits of being in a union but I don't want to join that union." That's asinine. To me that's no different that people wanting a handout for nothing. Yeah, you are right though. That's America in 2014.

 

But isn't the argument, if you don't want to join a union, don't take the job similar to the argument in the Smoking bans saying if you don't want to work in a smoking environment, get a job somewhere else? That puts an unreasonable burden on those who don't want to work in a smoke filled or unionized environment. Their options may be limited.

But isn't the argument, if you don't want to join a union, don't take the job similar to the argument in the Smoking bans saying if you don't want to work in a smoking environment, get a job somewhere else? That puts an unreasonable burden on those who don't want to work in a smoke filled or unionized environment. Their options may be limited.

 

I disagree. Even in my factory there are mechanics and mill wrights brought in as contractors to do work that we either can't do or don't have enough manpower for. I don't buy the argument the union job is the only job available when my factory has a number of non-union contractors in the plant doing union work.

Toyota is a great example. They aren't unionized are they? Hmmmm, don't think so. Seems to me that is proof a large corporation can function in a state that isn't a Right-to-Work state. Hmmmm, so if that is case how does this state benefit from becoming Right-to-Work?

 

Toyota is a good example but what have we picked up since then? New plants being built but they are not even considering KY. Texas has been the biggest recipient of such plants. How much of that is due to Texas being Right to Work? I don't know. I do know Texas as a whole is a much better run state than KY and is much less burdensome to operate a business in. Their tax code is also much better than KY's. Some parts of KY's code almost encourages you to leave the state, it is insane.

If Kentucky became Right-to-Work and my plant went through a large layoff when the business ramped back up they would hire temporary workers instead of bringing back the permanent union workers. They would then pay those temporary workers 10-12 bucks an hour for the temporary worker and not have to offer healthcare instead of the 20 bucks an hour and healthcare they are paying for the permanent union employee.

 

I don't understand why anyone would be for this.

Informally... the UAW. Do their workers get paid anywhere NEAR what they do if Ford, GM, and whoever else aren't paying high union wages elsewhere? I doubt it.

 

American industrial superiority was built on the back of big finance and brilliant men with big ideas.

 

The American middle class was built by high post-war wages, at least in part from union-driven wages that became available to people without the necessary education or connections to otherwise earn that kind of wage.

 

Globalization and advances in technology have held wages flat for a generation. Are unions a part of that? Sure. But what I've seen gives me a lot of pause to the "conspiracy" theory espoused by a lot of union folks I know: make the big push to get rid of campaign finance laws by touting the fact that labor unions can use the freedom to spend just like corporations... then... get rid of the unions.

 

To be sure, unions need massive reform. The number of teamsters I know that are absolutely furious about how Hoffa handled the last contract here in Louisville and the way he went about it would be enough to give me pause on its own. But in the end, I've never been convinced by the right-to-work notion that somehow busting the unions is going to make America stronger or make people's lives better.

 

I have managed a business now for a number of years that is unionized. I maintain a great relationship with the Union and in return, we are able to make decisions together to continue to keep our business competitive. However, if I was starting a business, I would not put out an ad looking for unions to come represent my employees. Because: every x years there is a significant non-value added cost in negotiating a bargaining agreement (contract); every x years there is a completely new leadership from the union and they may know exactly zero about my business and my businesses needs, but they have a major controlling interest in what should be one of the company's biggest assets, its human capital; and next among what could be many, the union is seldom called upon to represent the employees who show up to work everyday and do their jobs and those who strive to excel...they are forced..not even that they want to...represent all workers, even those who are known to be troublemakers at the expense of both the company and the union. I challenge a single person on this board to tell me that they are or they know of a single manager of a business who would choose to work with a union over working directly with the people they hire and pay! Until someone can, you will have time convincing me or any other business person that right-to-work is a bad move for the state.

I disagree. Even in my factory there are mechanics and mill wrights brought in as contractors to do work that we either can't do or don't have enough manpower for. I don't buy the argument the union job is the only job available when my factory has a number of non-union contractors in the plant doing union work.

 

The union at Corning allows outside non unionized contractors? That would never go over at GE's Appliance park. Funny story, they hired a new employee (white collar so non union employee) and were riding around the plant on a golf cart showing him around. They made a stop and when got off the cart, the heal of his shoe caught a panel of the golf cart, it pulled the panel off. He knelt down to put the panel back on and a union steward noticed it and went ballistic that he was taking union work away and he was written up in a union grievance. He looked at the plant superintendent of that area with disbelief. The superintendent nodded and just replied, "You'll catch on." LOL You do not dare bring in outside workers at appliance park.

Maybe wages are declining and healthcare is rising because they aren't unionized. I've gotten a 3% raise every year since 1999 and will continue to get that 3% raise through 2018. 4% raise in 2010. We also received affordable healthcare through 2018 and in 2014 and 2015 our healthcare will be cheaper than it was in 2012 and 2013. And that's for every union member that works for Corning. From Wilmington, Notth Carolina to Blacksburg, Virginia to Harrodsburg, Kentucky to multiple plants in upstate New York. We also look to add jobs at a Danville, Kentucky plant in the near future as well. We're talking thousands of union members receiving rasies and affordable healthcare. You have any data on what the Right-to-Workers are making, raises and healthcare?

 

Again, it doesn't my matter if a state is Right-to-Work. Those jobs can be organized. Texas is a huge state with a lot of people and land. What kind of tax benefits to companies get for moving their business to Texas? What kind of wages are these businesses paying? Are you saying the ONLY reason Texas is adding jobs is because they are a Right-to-Work state? Is that your claim?

 

How many manufacturing in Kentucky are unionized anyways? GM, Corning...who else? Is Ford unionized? Toyota isn't are they? Hitachi isn't. Lexmark? They unionized? I wasn't aware that unionized manufacturing plants were dominating the manufacturing landscape in Kentucky to cause people to want mistakingly want Right-to-Work so badly.

 

There are many unionized smaller shops, and add to that they are lumped in the same locals with transportation companies of which there are many. Right-to-work laws should be no threat if unions are protecting the welfare of employees because employees will choose to join the union and pay the dues. Why does the government still have to protect the unions via the NLRB and state closed shop laws?

I have managed a business now for a number of years that is unionized. I maintain a great relationship with the Union and in return, we are able to make decisions together to continue to keep our business competitive. However, if I was starting a business, I would not put out an ad looking for unions to come represent my employees. Because: every x years there is a significant non-value added cost in negotiating a bargaining agreement (contract); every x years there is a completely new leadership from the union and they may know exactly zero about my business and my businesses needs, but they have a major controlling interest in what should be one of the company's biggest assets, its human capital; and next among what could be many, the union is seldom called upon to represent the employees who show up to work everyday and do their jobs and those who strive to excel...they are forced..not even that they want to...represent all workers, even those who are known to be troublemakers at the expense of both the company and the union. I challenge a single person on this board to tell me that they are or they know of a single manager of a business who would choose to work with a union over working directly with the people they hire and pay! Until someone can, you will have time convincing me or any other business person that right-to-work is a bad move for the state.

 

Why would any business owner want a union around to keep them honest? That makes no sense. That's what unions do. Keep businesses honest.

 

I agree with a lot of what you said in your post. As a current union president a lot of people have no idea the things I have to go through but you hit home with a few sentences. However, without a union in my plant there is no doubt in my mind that our labor force would be destroyed by the company. Without union presence so much would change for the labor force and none of it would be good for them.

The union at Corning allows outside non unionized contractors? That would never go over at GE's Appliance park. Funny story, they hired a new employee (white collar so non union employee) and were riding around the plant on a golf cart showing him around. They made a stop and when got off the cart, the heal of his shoe caught a panel of the golf cart, it pulled the panel off. He knelt down to put the panel back on and a union steward noticed it and went ballistic that he was taking union work away and he was written up in a union grievance. He looked at the plant superintendent of that area with disbelief. The superintendent nodded and just replied, "You'll catch on." LOL You do not dare bring in outside workers at appliance park.

 

It's a tricky situation but the contract actually allows it and in an effort of togetherness we allow it sometimes. We currently have a really good relationship with the company. We are not a prototypical union in how we operate.

Why would any business owner want a union around to keep them honest? That makes no sense. That's what unions do. Keep businesses honest.

 

I agree with a lot of what you said in your post. As a current union president a lot of people have no idea the things I have to go through but you hit home with a few sentences. However, without a union in my plant there is no doubt in my mind that our labor force would be destroyed by the company. Without union presence so much would change for the labor force and none of it would be good for them.

 

I have worked for that kind of company as well unfortunately. I believe a vibrant growing economy is the best situation for the employee as then companies must compete for employees. And, I encourage employees, union/non-union doesn't matter, to take their careers in their own hands and develop their skills and education. The biggest boost for wages in the Lex. area was when Toyota built the plant in Georgetown and sucked up all the skilled labor resources right away at very high wages.