You're kidding, right?

Not at all. There are too many instances of innocent people being awakened in the middle of the night by policemen banging on the wrong door. If the warrant is for the arrest of a suspect believed to be armed and dangerous, then break the door down but make sure that you have the right address. In the case of a search warrant or suspects not expected to turn violent, it makes no sense to me to bang on somebody's door who is sound asleep.

 

Less than 2 I think...maybe 1

 

I heard zero last night. This is not a crime infested inner city community. It is a majority black, so many are portraying it that way...

I heard zero last night. This is not a crime infested inner city community. It is a majority black, so many are portraying it that way...

Yeah I saw the stats on it too, you're probably right with zero. There have only been one or two per year over the last few years.

Quiz time. How many homicides of any kind were there in Ferguson in 2014 before Brown was killed???

What is your point, GT? Are those bricks and Moltov cocktails less lethal because of what has happened in the past? You are aware, are you not, that many of the troublemakers looting and rioting in Ferguson are from out of town, or did that fact escape your attention?

 

If you review my posts, you will find that I pointed out that Ferguson has a reasonable crime rate and a relatively low unemployment rate, particularly considering its demography.

 

Have you ever been in a vehicle struck in the windshield while traveling at 50 mph or faster? Me neither, but when I was a teenager, my brother, a cousin, and I were squeezed into the front seat of my father's pick-up (my father was driving) and were hit by a dirt clod or mud ball some kids dropped from a high cliff while we were going at least 50 mph. It sounded like a gunshot. The window shattered. Had it been a brick, I might have been killed.

 

There is no excuse for these racist thugs hurling objects onto an interstate spur at innocent people. None. So stop looking for one.

Not at all. There are too many instances of innocent people being awakened in the middle of the night by policemen banging on the wrong door. If the warrant is for the arrest of a suspect believed to be armed and dangerous, then break the door down but make sure that you have the right address. In the case of a search warrant or suspects not expected to turn violent, it makes no sense to me to bang on somebody's door who is sound asleep.

 

So, you want to tell the criminals that warrants will only be served between 8-5? Please.

 

You say "if they are not expected to turn violent". You're missing a crucial point, anyone being arrested for any reason can become violent. I can happen in seconds.

So, you want to tell the criminals that warrants will only be served between 8-5? Please.

 

You say "if they are not expected to turn violent". You're missing a crucial point, anyone being arrested for any reason can become violent. I can happen in seconds.

When you bang on somebody's door who is sound asleep at 3 AM and they are suspected of a nonviolent crime, is it more or less likely that they will answer the door with a gun drawn than if you knock on the door when they are awake? To me, the answer is common sense.

 

I did not say that there should be absolute limits on the time that warrants are served, but the police should exercise some common sense, and if they cannot do so, then a judge (or legislature) needs to establish some ground rules.

When you bang on somebody's door who is sound asleep at 3 AM and they are suspected of a nonviolent crime, is it more or less likely that they will answer the door with a gun drawn than if you knock on the door when they are awake? To me, the answer is common sense.

 

I did not say that there should be absolute limits on the time that warrants are served, but the police should exercise some common sense, and if they cannot do so, then a judge (or legislature) needs to establish some ground rules.

 

"I would like to see limits set on the time of day most warrants can be served. If there is evidence that illegal activity is taking place in the wee hours of the morning, then fine, serve the warrant in the middle of the night. However, in most cases, warrants should be served during hours that people are normally awake."

 

That is what you posted in an earlier post. To me, this is ludicrous.

"I would like to see limits set on the time of day most warrants can be served. If there is evidence that illegal activity is taking place in the wee hours of the morning, then fine, serve the warrant in the middle of the night. However, in most cases, warrants should be served during hours that people are normally awake."

 

That is what you posted in an earlier post. To me, this is ludicrous.

To me, it is ludicrous that you seem to believe that it is always reasonable to serve warrants at all hours of the night, without taking into account the severity of the suspected crime, or the increased likelihood that an otherwise non-violent citizen might be shot for defending his home without even knowing who broke down his door.

 

There is a legal presumption of innocence in this country. Obviously, there are situations where the element of surprise is necessary to apprehend suspects, but that should not be the standard operating procedure.

Please make this stop. This debate is based on information from an ACLU 'report'. That is in no way, shape, or form, a report. It's a story! It was written with a conclusion already determined and facts that supported that conclusion were inserted and surrounded by dramatic accounts of horrible outcomes. Had I turned in that 'report' to my high school English teacher I would have gotten no better than a C due to lack of effort to find balancing argument to at least compare. For a creative writing piece, this is A+ work.

 

Look at the choice of language. What are 'military style weapons'? One account describes a 'grandfather' being shot as an example of a SWAT raid gone bad. I guess if ones mind is open to such suggestion one could conclude that the police were storming houses with tanks and firing them at little old men. Or could it be that that 'grandfather' is a 35year old man, just like the guy who lives two blocks down the street from me with his daughter (16) and grandson, (In an apartment that has a high probability of being the subject of a warrant based on what I see) and that the weapon used was a police issue handgun.

 

And all this torment being thrust upon the public, as if the police were executing warrants upon the public at random, rather than directing those efforts against subjects of criminal wrongdoing, based upon probable cause, supported by sworn oath, and signed off upon by a judge.

To me, it is ludicrous that you seem to believe that it is always reasonable to serve warrants at all hours of the night, without taking into account the severity of the suspected crime, or the increased likelihood that an otherwise non-violent citizen might be shot for defending his home without even knowing who broke down his door.

 

There is a legal presumption of innocence in this country. Obviously, there are situations where the element of surprise is necessary to apprehend suspects, but that should not be the standard operating procedure.

 

Weird... I read all his post and didn't see where he said that:idunno:

Weird... I read all his post and didn't see where he said that:idunno:

Yes, that is indeed weird because his attacks on my position were based on my contention that there should be some limits on the time that warrants are served and some common sense exercised by the police officers who serve warrants. Night vision goggles are neat gadgets and certainly have their place in law enforcement, but their use should be fairly rare.

Yes, that is indeed weird because his attacks on my position were based on my contention that there should be some limits on the time that warrants are served and some common sense exercised by the police officers who serve warrants. Night vision goggles are neat gadgets and certainly have their place in law enforcement, but their use should be fairly rare.

 

You know I think you might be on to something.

 

We could have all policemen work Monday through Friday. Say maybe they could come in to work around 9ish when the sun is up and it's daylight. Everybody home by 7:00, before darkness sets in, so they can be with their families. Maybe if the police could call ahead and make sure everybody is home so as to not waste time stopping by the house if the drug dealer isn't home.

 

Think of all the taxpayer dollars that would be saved. Cops wouldn't be killing themselves at 10 times the national average. A lot less burnout when everybody gets to go home at night, spend time w/ family, sleep at night. Costs to hire and train new cops will go way down and we can use that money for more worthy causes.

 

Your reality is not of this world.

You know I think you might be on to something.

 

We could have all policemen work Monday through Friday. Say maybe they could come in to work around 9ish when the sun is up and it's daylight. Everybody home by 7:00, before darkness sets in, so they can be with their families. Maybe if the police could call ahead and make sure everybody is home so as to not waste time stopping by the house if the drug dealer isn't home.

 

Think of all the taxpayer dollars that would be saved. Cops wouldn't be killing themselves at 10 times the national average. A lot less burnout when everybody gets to go home at night, spend time w/ family, sleep at night. Costs to hire and train new cops will go way down and we can use that money for more worthy causes.

 

Your reality is not of this world.

Don't distort my posts. I never called for warrants to only be served during normal business hours and I am sure that you realize that I did no such thing. I would be glad to have an honest debate on this topic, but for that to happen, both of us have to be honest.

Here's a search warrant being served in Evansville over threatening comments toward the police made on a message board. This wasn't a case of a mistaken address, but the warrant identified the wrong people as responsible. I don't think this is reasonable.

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6e7_1407930108

Here's a search warrant being served in Evansville over threatening comments toward the police made on a message board. This wasn't a case of a mistaken address, but the warrant identified the wrong people as responsible. I don't think this is reasonable.

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6e7_1407930108

 

Situations like this is why I'm so worried.