I love both teams but Anthony Davis is a once in a generation talent. MKG is the best "winner" I've seen at UK

2012 refused to lose, yes. They weren't going to lose in the tournament. They were also undoubtedly the best team at that point. To be fair though, any chance of a rematch with North Carolina ended when Marshall broke his wrist, and Vanderbilt had just beaten us in the SEC tournament after we'd only beaten Florida by 3 the day before. The best team? Probably. Unbeatable? Hardly.

 

 

 

Won every game going away? WKU, Iowa State, and Baylor, yes. The rest, I'm not so sure.

 

 

Beat Indiana in the Sweet 16 by 12 and only led by 3 at half. Our largest lead of the game was 13.

 

 

Almost blew the natty against Kansas late-- I remember a big lead suddenly starting to slip away. With 1:30 left, it was a 5 point game. With 1:11 left it's 63-57, KU's inbounding and on a 13-4 run.

 

 

Beat Louisville by 8, largest lead of the game was 13. 63-57 with 1:30 left and UK ball. A 6 point lead late was nice, but not safe the way UK shot free throws and given that UL had just ended a huge scoring drought. It definitely wasn't impossible considering UK turned the ball over and put Smith on the line the next play. We're talking the possibility of a 4 point game with 1:20 left, UL having some momentum, and just getting started with the foul game (Teague & MKG had 4 fouls each at that point too). Siva hits one of two, UK rebounds and Davis gets a dunk to seal it at 1:00 (

, start at 1:30:00).

 

 

2012 was great and the national title win was awesome, but I don't think it's being objective to say that we just dominated the tournament, especially late. They had a high scoring differential because no game ended up with a really close margin, but still weren't exactly 2006 Florida or 2009 North Carolina just running roughshod over everybody, even teams they played in the Final Four.

 

I said going away as not a last second win. Over a six game stretch you're going to have some 6 point games or so. But 2012 would have had to collapse to lose any of those games down the stretch.

I think Boogie is getting slighted because he was the second best player on his team. As a freshman he was better than Davis offensively and despite all those dudes that Hatz named that Davis faced not a single one is or was anywhere as near as good as Boogie. Boogie gets Davis in foul trouble and the whole complexion of the game changes.

 

I'm still not buying that college Lamb is as good as college Bledsoe.

 

 

I don't think college Lamb and college Bledsoe are as close as people are making them out to be either. As strong and physical as Bledsoe is, I'd think he would terrorize Lamb. First year in the league for each: Bledsoe, the 18th pick, is All-Rookie 2nd Team and starts 23 games on a good Clippers team. Either he wasn't as raw as people seem to be remembering him, or he got much, much better over that summer. I'm not saying he wasn't raw at UK, or that he isn't still getting better, just that what we remember from him was probably more of a function of his adjusting to playing out of his natural position and transitioning to the college game at the same time.

 

'10 can swallow the loss of Cousins much easier than '12 could swallow the loss of Davis. One's replaced with Orton, one with Vargas.

 

Cousins is a bull that drew fouls at an insane rate, so it's asinine to think that you could just lay off of him or let him have his way once he got the ball-- he'd kill you himself because the team's offensive efficiency would be through the roof. Maybe if Davis fronts him, it really limits his effectiveness, but that means when Wall or Bledsoe gets penetration, he's already behind the defense.

 

If Cousins trying to stay out of foul trouble by guarding Davis though, I like his chances of giving him a little extra cushion, at least until he sticks a few jumpers, and even if he's on, just living with the results. You take that chance if you are '10. As good as Davis was, he was more of a defensive presence, a finisher at the rim, and someone who was still refining his game offensively. If he was the offensive player that he is today, he'd have taken more than the 4th or 5th most shots on his team like Cal loved to mention.

This is where we are approaching this from two different angles. I am rationalizing from college performance alone. Others are looking at NBA as a factor. The 2010 guys have had two extra years to make NBA growth.

 

Like you, I thought we were looking at this from a college only perspective.

I'm still not buying that college Lamb is as good as college Bledsoe.

 

I don't think college Lamb and college Bledsoe are as close as people are making them out to be either.

 

If I was putting together a team & had to choose between sophomore Lamb & freshman Bledsoe at the 2, I'm taking sophomore Lamb without having to think about it. Lamb scored double figures in every game in the SEC & NCAA Tournaments his last year at UK, including the 22 points in the title game. He rose to the occasion.

 

Bledsoe is better than freshman Lamb, but I think the sophomore Doron was an outstanding college player.

The only reason everyone is so low on the 2010s is because they had a game you couldn't have scripted worse from them and better for West Virginia.

 

WVU needed a guy who averaged 2.2 PPG on the year to get 17. Mazzula averaged 13% from 3 on the year, but hits one of the team's 1st half 8 to start a big run when they were down 13-6 and on the ropes. WVU needed Kentucky to miss their first 20 3's. WVU averaged 33% from 3 on the year but shot almost 44% in the game (with their 4 leading scorers being 8/16). Not saying WVU wasn't good or they didn't deserve it, but it just screams of fluke win.

 

WVU was hot, Kentucky couldn't throw one in the ocean. Wall, Miller, and Liggins foul out. Bledsoe finishes with 4. Cousins had his 3rd with 17:00 left in the game. It was one of those nights, those happen.

Like you, I thought we were looking at this from a college only perspective.

 

I'm looking at it as college only too. No question the 2010's kill them in a pro style game or after everyone's seasoned some.

Against IU it was a layup drill. Probably the least they had to work on offense all season and Davis was in foul trouble a chunk of the game. KU they dominated for 37 minutes of the game. Just too skilled. The UL game I still get chills thinking about.

 

I think people are really ignoring the intangible differences between the two. I value that a lot. You can debate the physical traits of both teams, but the 2012 wins in that department by a landslide. Headed by MKG. The only way I can explain it is that had 2012 been in the same situation as 2010, in that they were frigid from the field against WVU, they still would have won that game. To draw an analogy, Jordan = 2012, LeBron = 2010.

 

 

I said going away as not a last second win. Over a six game stretch you're going to have some 6 point games or so. But 2012 would have had to collapse to lose any of those games down the stretch.

 

 

A late five to six point game for a horrible free throw shooting team filled with freshmen and sophomores who know their coach's teams have a reputation for choking away big games at the line isn't the most encouraging thought.

 

Agree that Kentucky would have had to have collapsed to have lost either, but they didn't exactly keep their foot on the opponent's throat late in either of the Final Four games.

 

 

I recognize the intangible differences between the 2. That's one of the biggest things the 2012s have going. I'm just not sure how much those would matter when the 2010 team has an above average game and nothing the 2012s do to try to stop it works.

 

IU in '12 was a layup drill and offensive clinic, but the largest lead of the game is 13? That Louisville team in the Final Four played UK really close both times that year, even though they didn't have as much talent. I watched Vanderbilt run all over them in the second half of the SEC Final.

 

 

Good teams were more capable of beating the 2012s consistently, the 2010s were more capable of stinking it up and beating themselves regardless of who they played.

 

It was bad in '10 and great in '12, but if you play those tournaments over 100 times and say that UK meets a healthy UNC in '12, then I see no reason why the '10 team doesn't come out on top as many or more times than the '12's. One fluke loss doesn't change my opinion on that.

Bottomline to me is the 2010 team couldn't shoot.

I think Boogie is getting slighted because he was the second best player on his team. As a freshman he was better than Davis offensively and despite all those dudes that Hatz named that Davis faced not a single one is or was anywhere as near as good as Boogie. Boogie gets Davis in foul trouble and the whole complexion of the game changes.

 

I'm still not buying that college Lamb is as good as college Bledsoe.

 

I was about to post something similar. All those guys listed haven't done squat in the NBA and Cousins is a max contract player. None of them compare to him.

 

Regarding Bledsoe, After seeing what he has done in the NBA, I really feel that he took a back seat to Wall. Would have been interesting to see what he could have done if he was running the show. (Not that I wasn't happy with what Wall brought to the table.)

If I was putting together a team & had to choose between sophomore Lamb & freshman Bledsoe at the 2, I'm taking sophomore Lamb without having to think about it. Lamb scored double figures in every game in the SEC & NCAA Tournaments his last year at UK, including the 22 points in the title game. He rose to the occasion.

 

 

Good call on Lamb being clutch. I'd honestly forgotten about how much he rose to the occasion until you'd mentioned it. Definitely a killer when it came to taking big shots.