I wonder how it's a false arrest, since she plead guilty to resisting arrest...

 

If he didn't have cause to arrest her why would she plead guilty? Was it to avoid other charges?

You've said repeatedly in this thread that Ferrin charged her with felony assault which is 100% false. The DA charged her with felony assault and every time you say Ferrin did, you are completely wrong. As an attorney I would think you may be able to get that part right but apparently not.

 

And you're right, the DA may have charged based on just Ferrin's account but I find that unlikely. I'm sure he spoke to the other officer that was there to get his account of the situation. He probably also read interviews of witnesses. He may have had other information beyond what I've listed, I don't know. After all that, HE decided to charge Ore with felony assault.

 

Once again, Ferrin did not charge anyone.

 

But carry on with the crusade.

 

 

I'm not sure that you're really seeing the big picture and what's going on with the whole process. When an officer arrests someone, they are doing so for a reason, and if you are an officer who is going to incarcerate someone, it's probably a good idea to charge them with something when you do. I mean, that's just my understanding of it. The DA will get the call on what gets prosecuted, obviously, but if you are going to arrest someone, then yes, you are charging them with a crime. If you don't believe me, you can read the article, which states... "she was arrested on charges of aggravated assault on a police officer, criminal damage, refusal to provide truthful name and obstructing a public thoroughfare", or even the police report. If you are arguing that the arrest was made without probable cause that the suspect had committed a crime, then you've lost before you've even started.

 

I don't think I'm wrong, I just think I'm a butthole.

Edited January 16, 201511 yr by JokersWild24

I wonder how it's a false arrest, since she plead guilty to resisting arrest...

 

If he didn't have cause to arrest her why would she plead guilty? Was it to avoid other charges?

 

My guess is a combination of two things:

 

1.) A guilty plea to resisting arrest and nothing else basically ensured no jail time. Given the media attention, etc., she was comfortable with the terms of the punishment going forward versus the prospect of going through a trial and face a far more severe range of possible punishments, etc. People hear about cases like this-- no two ways about it. I personally would plea out instead of taking the chance that someone has heard about it and tries to get on the jury.

 

&

 

2.) Pleading guilty to resisting arrest alone, at least in some types of cases, here, probably more-so in the civil sense, probably meant that any significant issues and/or claims she might want to bring later wouldn't be precluded. For example, and I'm not sure on the exact specifics, but possibly a situation where the Judge can determine and/or let the jury determine whether she was entitled to resist... not really sure about how Arizona's law works, but shortly after this, I think I remember reading about an ASU student who was wrongfully arrested (i.e., no lawful basis) and that allowed the Judge to pose the question to the jury of whether or not her resistance was more or less justified given the circumstances. I'm thinking hers was a criminal trial, but I'd imagine that strategically, it's kind of the same thought process either way. Yes, you are admitting that you resisted an arrest, but at the same time, you aren't necessarily admitting that the arrest was actually lawful and/or precluding other claims and/or issues that would act as defenses or possibly entitle you to damages in a later civil case.

I'm not sure that you're really seeing the big picture and what's going on with the whole process. When an officer arrests someone, they are doing so for a reason, and if you are an officer who is going to incarcerate someone, it's probably a good idea to charge them with something when you do. I mean, that's just my understanding of it. The DA will get the call on what gets prosecuted, obviously, but if you are going to arrest someone, then yes, you are charging them with a crime. If you don't believe me, you can read the article, which states... "she was arrested on charges of aggravated assault on a police officer, criminal damage, refusal to provide truthful name and obstructing a public thoroughfare", or even the police report. If you are arguing that the arrest was made without probable cause that the suspect had committed a crime, then you've lost before you've even started.

 

I don't think I'm wrong, I just think I'm a butthole.

 

An officer arrests someone for a crime, the prosecutor then chooses to charge them or not. Just because you are arrested does not mean you are charged. After you are arrested you can be kept for up to 48 hours (maybe only 24, I can't remember) until you have to be charged. During that time te prosecutor is reviewing information and determining which charges they will file.

An officer arrests someone for a crime, the prosecutor then chooses to charge them or not. Just because you are arrested does not mean you are charged. After you are arrested you can be kept for up to 48 hours (maybe only 24, I can't remember) until you have to be charged. During that time te prosecutor is reviewing information and determining which charges they will file.

 

 

Chess & Checkers. I'm thinking you're talking about pre-trial and a preliminary hearing to determine probable cause to detain further due to significant constraints on an arrestee's liberty. I'm talking about an officer, who has some discretion on the initial charges... err, sorry, 'allegations he lists in his police report as reasons he had probable cause to suspect that the accused had violated the law'... to even bring up, overcharging, err... "listing probable cause to arrest for more crimes than necessary in his report, which was probably suggestive to the DA".

 

If Ferrin doesn't bring up the aggravated assault of an officer in his report, then there's a much better chance that the DA doesn't bring it up either. Yes, the DA has the final call in what is and isn't prosecuted, I think it's fair to say I know that, despite whatever you're thinking. My point is that Ferrin's initial accusation and arresting her on that probably forced the DA's hand a little in the whole deal.

 

Call it what you want, but you yourself are saying "an officer arrests someone for a crime"... so what do you term that as? I mean, I can technically say, "Ferrin should not have arrested her and alleged in his police report that, based on the incidents, it was his determination that there was probable cause to detain her on basis of her having committed aggravated assault of an officer and that information was presented to the DA, who made the final call on brining the charge", and that's probably what you're looking for, but I think it's fair to say that, if nothing else, in lay terms, it's easier to put it like I did.

 

Again, he's arresting her and alleging that there's probable cause that she has committed a crime that he's accusing her of. The DA gets put in a situation like this and things like what's happening start to unfold. Look at the scenarios:

 

DA initially drops the charge, especially when combined with the other charges that were also dropped, and the officer has taken her to jail for a jaywalking ticket or not getting her ID quick enough-- uh oh, that looks heavy handed after you've alleged she damaged a police car, and it looks like you've said that because the damage occurred from your throwing her onto the car. You've alleged she committed felonious assault on an officer, and we're not going to charge that either. This is going to come up at trial and it doesn't look good for our side.

 

DA sticks with the charge and maybe that's not as bad because, given the seriousness of the accusation, the accused has more things to fight in court and becomes more likely to plea out. Oh yea, plus, if anything goes wrong, then it's more likely to be the officer's, not the DA's, head that is on the chopping block if things blow up (like they did).

 

Again, her dress was up and a male officer reached at the area that led to him being kicked, but he felt the need to charge with a crime whose statutory language includes things like trying to take an officer's weapon, serious bodily injury, and the like. There's a 911 call complaining that the officer was being aggressive. Questionable stop in the first place for jaywalking on a closed street where lots of others are doing the same thing. Video that got a large majority of the public on her side.

 

I'm still going to believe that it's fair to say that the officer kind of made his own bed here based on how he chose to use his discretion in determining what to list in his report as having probable cause to arrest her for. Some battles you cannot and will not win-- that's part of the reality of everyone's job. Given how this thing played out on the whole, I don't see how he couldn't recognize the possibility that something like this could happen.

Joker, you like pointing out the 911 call.

 

Here's the deal. Some people do not like physical confrontation. However when a police officer makes the decision to arrest, and the person under arrest resists, there aren't many other options than to physically place them under arrest. My point being the 911 caller likely didn't say anything, or maybe even see the actions that lead to him becoming physical with her.

 

She was not stopped simply walking down a street everyone walked down. She was stopped because asked her to move and she apparently refused. I think he said he almost hit her with his car even. She then refused to give him her information then resisted, and kicked him.

 

The University stated he didn't violate any policy, but they still want to fire him.

 

She plead guilty to resisting arrest.

 

He has not been charged with any crimes, nor has anyone (I haven't seen it anyways) said why he is being fired.

 

What exactly did he do wrong? Over charge her? She is suing for $2 million over that?

 

He may be a terrible police officer. I don't know him. But based on what I've seen from this situation, the only one who behaved poorly was the professor who acted like a spoiled child. What reason did she have to kick a police officer and resist arrest? To ignore his commands?

My thing is this: she probably shouldn't have been in the situation to begin with. I'm not going to argue that she did herself tons of favors or anything because that isn't my point. My point is that she was stopped on a closed road that, if I'm recalling correctly, was only open to local businesses. How fast could the officer have been driving and how attentive could he have been being if he almost hit her in a zone that's probably got a 15-20 mph speed limit posted?

 

What I'm trying to say: at the least, making bigger deals out of things than they had to be. He's probably learned the "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" lesson.

 

At worst, I think he might be stretching the truth in regards to what's happened. Maybe he didn't "almost hit her". Maybe he did almost hit her, but wasn't really paying very close attention or was driving a little too fast for the area given the foot traffic. I don't think it's crazy unreasonable that the Professor said, "I have no problem obeying the law, but do you have to be so disrespectful?". The whole conversation wasn't caught on tape, and Ore references him yelling "do you know this is a road?". The report also references another officer coming to the scene and Ferrin saying, "don't talk to him, talk to me".

 

Anything you've said about the person who made the 911 call is really conjecture. What about it do you not take them at their word for? Are there people who routinely make 911 calls about officers trying to get them in trouble? In my experience, reporting officers is one of the last things lots of people want to do for fear of reprisal.

 

I can tell you one thing, it's probably a good thing for Mr. Ferrin that it didn't go to the trial if the defense were to put the caller onto the stand and he planned to say, "oh, the 911 caller likely didn't say anything, or maybe even see the actions that lead to me becoming physical with her." Do that, and you're saying she's a liar, the caller is a liar, and that the kid in your other controversial case is a liar too. Sounds like the guy just has some bad luck running into liars if that's what's up.

 

I think it's ironic that he's going to the newspapers asking for sympathy now (and in a news report yesterday, there was a direct quote from him saying he "wished he handled it differently"). I wonder what a guy like Jason Heckendorn, the guy who got one of six President's Scholarships to ASU and stands facing a felony because Ferrin claimed he assaulted him when Heckendorn claims that he was in a large crowd (students were lining up for football game tickets after a game) and jerked away because he felt someone grab him, what would he think of Mr. Ferrin's public plea for leniency? As bad as our prison industrial complex is, sorry if I don't want people like Heckendorn and Ore labeled as felons.

 

If Ferrin is such the good guy that he's claiming, why hasn't the Department still, to this day, released his disciplinary record? Wouldn't you think that with the possibility that they'd be sued, they'd want to say that he had an exemplary record?

 

Something about the guy just doesn't smell right, and I think that karma's a funny thing that works in a weird way, ya' know.

My thing is this: she probably shouldn't have been in the situation to begin with. I'm not going to argue that she did herself tons of favors or anything because that isn't my point. My point is that she was stopped on a closed road that, if I'm recalling correctly, was only open to local businesses. How fast could the officer have been driving and how attentive could he have been being if he almost hit her in a zone that's probably got a 15-20 mph speed limit posted?

 

What I'm trying to say: at the least, making bigger deals out of things than they had to be. He's probably learned the "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" lesson.

 

At worst, I think he might be stretching the truth in regards to what's happened. Maybe he didn't "almost hit her". Maybe he did almost hit her, but wasn't really paying very close attention or was driving a little too fast for the area given the foot traffic. I don't think it's crazy unreasonable that the Professor said, "I have no problem obeying the law, but do you have to be so disrespectful?". The whole conversation wasn't caught on tape, and Ore references him yelling "do you know this is a road?". The report also references another officer coming to the scene and Ferrin saying, "don't talk to him, talk to me".

 

Anything you've said about the person who made the 911 call is really conjecture. What about it do you not take them at their word for? Are there people who routinely make 911 calls about officers trying to get them in trouble? In my experience, reporting officers is one of the last things lots of people want to do for fear of reprisal.

 

I can tell you one thing, it's probably a good thing for Mr. Ferrin that it didn't go to the trial if the defense were to put the caller onto the stand and he planned to say, "oh, the 911 caller likely didn't say anything, or maybe even see the actions that lead to me becoming physical with her." Do that, and you're saying she's a liar, the caller is a liar, and that the kid in your other controversial case is a liar too. Sounds like the guy just has some bad luck running into liars if that's what's up.

 

I think it's ironic that he's going to the newspapers asking for sympathy now (and in a news report yesterday, there was a direct quote from him saying he "wished he handled it differently"). I wonder what a guy like Jason Heckendorn, the guy who got one of six President's Scholarships to ASU and stands facing a felony because Ferrin claimed he assaulted him when Heckendorn claims that he was in a large crowd (students were lining up for football game tickets after a game) and jerked away because he felt someone grab him, what would he think of Mr. Ferrin's public plea for leniency? As bad as our prison industrial complex is, sorry if I don't want people like Heckendorn and Ore labeled as felons.

 

If Ferrin is such the good guy that he's claiming, why hasn't the Department still, to this day, released his disciplinary record? Wouldn't you think that with the possibility that they'd be sued, they'd want to say that he had an exemplary record?

 

Something about the guy just doesn't smell right, and I think that karma's a funny thing that works in a weird way, ya' know.

 

You are making excuses for her. He was driving on this road, asked her to move, and she wouldn't. What would you expect him to do...say "oh well I asked her to move and she wouldn't...I tried" and move on?

 

He was doing his job. Being rude, if he was, is not an excuse to resist and assault.

 

Apparently the professors attorney didn't want it to go to trial seeing as they plead guilty.

 

I believe he said he has no regrets about what happened and that he was doing his job. I have not seen the quote you posted, but it doesn't change my opinion.

 

Good people make mistakes. Are you saying he's incapable of breaking the law because he's a good student? And how would questioning what the 911 caller saw be calling the kid from the other case a liar? Are we just supposed to automatically believe the 911 caller saw and heard the entire thing?

 

If Ferrin is such a bad police officer, why dud the university clear him so quickly? Why did they let him return to work for SIX WEEKS after this and then put him leave when the media found out about it?

 

I'm still not sure what exactly he did wrong...

HB, don't waste your time.

 

Joker will NEVER post anything but negative thoughts and opinions about law enforcement.

HB, don't waste your time.

 

Joker will NEVER post anything but negative thoughts and opinions about law enforcement.

 

I don't expect to change his mind :lol2:

You are making excuses for her. He was driving on this road, asked her to move, and she wouldn't. What would you expect him to do...say "oh well I asked her to move and she wouldn't...I tried" and move on?

 

He was doing his job. Being rude, if he was, is not an excuse to resist and assault.

 

Apparently the professors attorney didn't want it to go to trial seeing as they plead guilty.

 

I believe he said he has no regrets about what happened and that he was doing his job. I have not seen the quote you posted, but it doesn't change my opinion.

 

Good people make mistakes. Are you saying he's incapable of breaking the law because he's a good student? And how would questioning what the 911 caller saw be calling the kid from the other case a liar? Are we just supposed to automatically believe the 911 caller saw and heard the entire thing?

 

If Ferrin is such a bad police officer, why dud the university clear him so quickly? Why did they let him return to work for SIX WEEKS after this and then put him leave when the media found out about it?

 

I'm still not sure what exactly he did wrong...

 

 

My point is that I think that saying that he was innocent of everything between Ore, what the caller reported, and what's being said in the separate case is a bit of a stretch.

 

I'm not saying he's entirely at fault for everything either, but wouldn't you agree that it's fair to say that, of nothing else, then in his short time on the job, he's had a run of bad luck and seems to run into people who otherwise don't seem to have any records but decide to become felons in his presence?

 

Yes, I think that someone's intelligence, like the kid who was a good student, can be indicative of their character on some levels. I don't know many people that intelligent who would purposefully hit an officer. It seems like the processes they've been through and the achievements they've attained would tend to weed out that type of behavior. I'm really doubting you get an elite scholarship like he had with a huge rap sheet or anything. Same for Ore being hired. I'm sure if she'd been arrested, had some work problems, or anything like that before, the media would have reported it (but we still haven't seen Ferrin's work record).

 

 

Here's the article:

 

Ferrin has been suspended for the last eight months. He says he's used that time to think about what happened that night and if there was anything he could have done differently.

 

"I guess if I came into this situation again I would handle it a little differently," Ferrin said. "But I stand by the decisions that I made that night."

 

...

 

"It's horrible to look at your wife each night and not know exactly what's going to happen the next day," he said. "Do I have a job tomorrow? Do I have insurance tomorrow? How am I going to put food on the table?"

 

 

Like you said, good people make mistakes. I just find his last quote interesting because it seems to be the situation that he had a hand in forcing other people to confront, sometimes when there was probably a more reasonable way to deal with it. I think you can be firm and respectful at the same time, it's not as if they are mutually exclusive.

 

Just like you think I'm crazy for leaning toward siding with Ore, the caller, and the other kid (at least to the point of saying I don't think that they're all conspiring to perpetuate complete lies about the guy), I think it's crazy to think that a professor is walking down the middle of the road, is supposedly nearly struck by his car, yet doesn't move when asked in a firm but respectful way and instead immediately acts belligerent. Further, I don't see why that after seeing this, someone who was not even connected to the situation decides to call 911 and talk about how aggressive he's being. The police report itself was talking about what a crowd was forming, but there hasn't been a single witness come forward to side with the officer.

 

If someone is nearly run over by a car, I'd imagine they'd want to get out of the road on their own. I definitely think they'd move when told to do so by an officer. I also think they'd probably stop when an officer was talking to them, especially if accosted, because they didn't feel free to go.

 

I'm not saying that anyone in any of these, Ferrin or any of the people I've talked about, are entirely innocent or entirely guilty, but just as you think I'm making excuses for them, I feel that there's a decent amount of that going on for Ferrin as well.

 

If we don't hear what Ore is saying, disregard the 911 caller's perception, and assume that the scholarship student is lying, then we're only hearing Ferrin's version of each of the events. Why even have a trial? Sorry if I don't think that three people who are unconnected are just out to get him and that he's not had a hand in making his own bed, but it's going to take a bit to change my mind on it as well.

 

Agreeing to disagree is fine because reasonable minds can differ and I definitely think that this is much less of a black and white and much more shades of grey.

HB, don't waste your time.

 

Joker will NEVER post anything but negative thoughts and opinions about law enforcement.

 

 

Riiiggghhhttt...

 

http://bluegrasspreps.com/controversial-issues/reddit-police-officer-293758.html

 

http://bluegrasspreps.com/bluegrasspreps-coms-break/texas-officer-unknowingly-279789.html

 

http://bluegrasspreps.com/bluegrasspreps-coms-break/san-antonio-officer-278418.html

 

http://bluegrasspreps.com/college-football/texas-m-chancellor-278931.html

HB, don't waste your time.

 

Joker will NEVER post anything but negative thoughts and opinions about law enforcement.

 

Riiiggghhhttt...

 

http://bluegrasspreps.com/controversial-issues/reddit-police-officer-293758.html

 

http://bluegrasspreps.com/bluegrasspreps-coms-break/texas-officer-unknowingly-279789.html

 

http://bluegrasspreps.com/bluegrasspreps-coms-break/san-antonio-officer-278418.html

 

http://bluegrasspreps.com/college-football/texas-m-chancellor-278931.html

 

:lol2: he did that just to spite you!!!

 

Joker MAY not dislike ALL Policemen...but he really hates this guy for some reason!

:lol2: he did that just to spite you!!!

 

Joker MAY not dislike ALL Policemen...but he really hates this guy for some reason!

 

 

I really don't dislike all policemen. Have friends and family who do it. Tons of respect for them, despite me not having lots for Ferrin and expressing it based on what I've read. Same time, I've been wrong before, so maybe I am now too.

 

Something about dude just doesn't pass the smell test here. I'm not saying the Professor or the other guy were angels because they weren't. She could have walked away with some hurt pride and the other kid was cited for an AI (though I have my doubts about him hitting him).

 

I'm just saying that I don't think the guy realized what the whole thing had the potential to become and how the ripple effect would go down. I honestly think that after all this, the guy would possibly be alright to do the job because he's probably had a long time to think about it and knows he'd be on thin ice, but it might be too late.

 

Honestly, the biggest issue seems to be that his insurance will run out soon. That could well be the biggest obstacle for him. I'd imagine no insurance companies are lining up to enroll him. Department doesn't trust him enough to fly solo without it, which could be indicative of how they feel about him (or it could just be policy).

 

I just really don't know what he expected sticking people with accusations of fairly serious crimes like he was. If you are going to accuse someone of a crime that falls under the same statute as trying to take an officer's weapon, using what could be considered deadly force against a civilian, etc., then you probably shouldn't leave much doubt about your charge. It's not really like those are the kinds of things people take lying down.

 

The Professor was initially fired from the University (which is part of her lawsuit). I'm sure the other kid lost lots of opportunities and now has an accusation that will follow him around regardless. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, I really wonder if the guy is thinking about what he put others up against.

 

I'm really kind of surprised someone at the Department or with the University didn't take him aside at some point and talk about fighting losing battles or at least go through possible outcomes with him. Again, if it's not in Marciopa County, Arizona, (who has had their pants sued off over the years) I might even go as far as to say that it's a slam dunk that the same charges are brought.

The officer has resigned.