February 28, 201412 yr You can't penalize a school for scheduling when the top teams won't play them. They have a win @ St. Louis, wins over other tournament teams (assumedly) in Tennessee and BYU. They went out and scheduled games against 2 BCS conference teams, and two very good "mid-majors" OOC. It's not their fault the conference shift blew up their schedule and 2 dates with Creighton. It's not their fault that Tennessee and Bama are significantly down from what everyone expected. They haven't simply done something that's rare, they've done something that no team has ever done before. Even if they lose in the conference tournament, they still deserve a #1 seed. The tourney is not about excuses or blame. They can only look at absolutes with one being your schedule. The "whys" don't matter. When you hold up a neutral court W over BYU and a win over Tennessee then that tells me you haven't proven you're a #1 seed. It doesn't mean they can't win the tourney. It says it's a big TBD.
February 28, 201412 yr They won at St. Louis, which has to be one of the most impressive road wins anyone has this season. ... What are we basing this upon?
February 28, 201412 yr It's about finding the four best teams -- or at least it should be -- regardless of schedule. ... Given that we can't have all of the contenders play each other prior to the tourney to know who beats who how else do you make the determination of who the best 4 is? Schedule has to be a huge component. The Shockers' SOS is anywhere from 110 to 130.
February 28, 201412 yr Given that we can't have all of the contenders play each other prior to the tourney to know who beats who how else do you make the determination of who the best 4 is? Schedule has to be a huge component. The Shockers' SOS is anywhere from 110 to 130. What they did against that schedule is important. To say they can't get a one seed because they played a weak schedule is a cop out. If they're beating middling teams but doing it by significant margins, that says as much to me as a team like Florida -- currently an overwhelming favorite to get a one seed -- eking out wins over middling teams from a nominally better league. A few extra games against good competition doesn't do enough for me. I'm a big fan of Ken Pomeroy's numbers; those suggest that even adjusting for schedule right now, Wichita State is one of the top teams in the country. It's statistically improbable for a team to go unbeaten in the regular season and conference tournament. Regardless of schedule, Wichita State is doing something highly unusual.
February 28, 201412 yr ....... I'm not sure they should be a #1 seed, but I think they are absolutely capable of winning 6 games in a row in March. When you can defend and rebound like they can, you are always dangerous. Those two attributes don't have off-nights. I LOVE the fact that they aren't dependent on the 3-ball to score, as the buildings get bigger and the sphincters get tighter as the tournament commences. Just as an FYI, their non-conference SOS is actually pretty good (30th, as of this moment), it is their conference SOS that is dreadful (219th).
February 28, 201412 yr What they did against that schedule is important. To say they can't get a one seed because they played a weak schedule is a cop out. If they're beating middling teams but doing it by significant margins, that says as much to me as a team like Florida -- currently an overwhelming favorite to get a one seed -- eking out wins over middling teams from a nominally better league. A few extra games against good competition doesn't do enough for me. I'm a big fan of Ken Pomeroy's numbers; those suggest that even adjusting for schedule right now, Wichita State is one of the top teams in the country. It's statistically improbable for a team to go unbeaten in the regular season and conference tournament. Regardless of schedule, Wichita State is doing something highly unusual. I'm not for rewarding "unusual" unless there are other things I can point at. You mention UF. Their SOS is around 30. Wichita is about 130. There's no question in my mind which of those two teams gets a #1 seed. Take the top 20 teams. Do we agree they would ALL have a much better W/L if they played WSU's schedule?
February 28, 201412 yr ....... I'm not sure they should be a #1 seed, but I think they are absolutely capable of winning 6 games in a row in March. When you can defend and rebound like they can, you are always dangerous. Those two attributes don't have off-nights. I LOVE the fact that they aren't dependent on the 3-ball to score, as the buildings get bigger and the sphincters get tighter as the tournament commences. Just as an FYI, their non-conference SOS is actually pretty good (30th, as of this moment), it is their conference SOS that is dreadful (219th). Agree completely. My whole point is centered around the question of them deserving a #1 seed.
February 28, 201412 yr I'm not for rewarding "unusual" unless there are other things I can point at. You mention UF. Their SOS is around 30. Wichita is about 130. There's no question in my mind which of those two teams gets a #1 seed. Take the top 20 teams. Do we agree they would ALL have a much better W/L if they played WSU's schedule? Sure. They'd have a better W/L. It's statistically unlikely for ANY of them to be unbeaten.
February 28, 201412 yr Sure. They'd have a better W/L. It's statistically unlikely for ANY of them to be unbeaten. Seeding is a relative measure. So by agreeing that they would all have a better W/L you're saying they have a)done something highly unusual but b)they are a product of their weak schedule. I admit there are still some subjective measures involved in the seeding determination. Jordan's Bulls would get a #1 seed even if their SOS was 333. So it's not JUST W/L and SOS. Shockers , regardless of the "why," just haven't shown they're a definite #1 seed. Of course I say that without putting much thought into who I would put as #1 so....
February 28, 201412 yr Let's get out of the theoretical and use real teams. As of today my the teams I'd have as potential #1 before Wichita: KU Arizona Duke Florida Wisconsin Syracuse Villanova Tell me why I'm wrong.
February 28, 201412 yr Seeding is a relative measure. So by agreeing that they would all have a better W/L you're saying they have a)done something highly unusual but b)they are a product of their weak schedule. I admit there are still some subjective measures involved in the seeding determination. Jordan's Bulls would get a #1 seed even if their SOS was 333. So it's not JUST W/L and SOS. Shockers , regardless of the "why," just haven't shown they're a definite #1 seed. Of course I say that without putting much thought into who I would put as #1 so.... Sure, they're a product of their schedule. I'll definitely cop to the that. Probably won a game or two that they shouldn't have based on opponent, but I can't really demonstrate that. But they're exceeding the expectations that schedule placed on them. They'd still be a REALLY good team even if they'd dropped that OT decision at Missouri State. But they didn't. My point is that they're winning games at a rate that is statistically improbable, regardless of the strength of schedule and that history suggests Kansas, Florida, Syracuse, Arizona, whoever... should have slipped up on at least one game by now. Wichita hasn't, despite the fact that the numbers say they should.
February 28, 201412 yr Yes, should they end up unbeaten thru their conference tourney I be believe that they are a sure 1 seed. I personally believe they just may be regardless of their conference tourney. I also believe that WSU should be a I seed, arguments on that I have heard are bc of the Gonzaga flop last season that WSU shouldn't get one this season are imo ridiculous. Comparing what happen last season, in a different conference, different tournaments is about as weak as it gets. I would hope that no one on the selection commitie is that lame in their thinking. WSU is loaded with experience from their F4 team, have arguably the best point guard in the country and are extremely well coached.
February 28, 201412 yr Let's get out of the theoretical and use real teams. As of today my the teams I'd have as potential #1 before Wichita: KU Arizona Duke Florida Wisconsin Syracuse Villanova Tell me why I'm wrong. I don't think any of those teams have separated themselves from Wichita State. And I do not think Wichita State is all that wonderful, but nor are the teams you list. No really good teams to be speak of. For example, I can't legitimately put Nova ahead of them when they have been blown out, as in run out of the gym twice, by Creighton. Syracuse could have lost 6 of their last 7 games now.
February 28, 201412 yr Let's get out of the theoretical and use real teams. As of today my the teams I'd have as potential #1 before Wichita: KU Arizona Duke Florida Wisconsin Syracuse Villanova Tell me why I'm wrong. Kansas, Nova, Cuse, and Wisconsin have all lost at home this season. That's reason enough for me to put the Shockers as a #1 ahead of them. Nova's been blown out twice. #1 seeds don't get blown out, much less at home. Wisconsin has lost at home to a team that's going to struggle to make the postseason of any kind. They're out. Syracuse lost to a team that had won 6 total games, and they did it at home. Kansas has not only lost at home, they've lost 6 games this year. #1 seeds don't belong to teams that have that many losses, especially not over undefeated teams. Duke is in the same boat. 6 losses. So I'll give you Arizona and Florida. Shockers deserve it above the rest.
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