I don't consider a Christmas tournament where a Louisville team goes to the 12th and plays in a tournament where the 12th's officials are probably calling it knowing they'll be rated by one school but not the other at some point in time to be very 'neutral'.

 

Neutral is Doss playing Ballard in Louisville at Valley and only losing by 10.

 

Let them go play at a gym in the 1st or 2nd region, far from either school, take the names off the jerseys and have refs from the Sun Belt that aren't rated by either school's coaches and I know who I'm taking if Lincoln County and Doss match up.

 

That's fine and dandy. When doing rankings we go by results, strength of schedule, team at full strength ...things of that nature. And with the butt whipping Lincoln County put on Doss there isn't anything the refs could have done to stop the bum rush. Funny though, Lincoln County lost to LexCath on that same court. Also lost to South Oldham(albeit without their best player, point guard Timmy Taylor) on that court as well. How come some teams adjust and others don't?

I don't consider a Christmas tournament where a Louisville team goes to the 12th and plays in a tournament where the 12th's officials are probably calling it knowing they'll be rated by one school but not the other at some point in time to be very 'neutral'.

 

Neutral is Doss playing Ballard in Louisville at Valley and only losing by 10.

 

Let them go play at a gym in the 1st or 2nd region, far from either school, take the names off the jerseys and have refs from the Sun Belt that aren't rated by either school's coaches and I know who I'm taking if Lincoln County and Doss match up.

 

The fact that Doss also lost by 14 to West Jessamine in Pulaski County but also defeated Pulaski County by 20+ points at Pulaski County and defeated Southwestern by 8 at Southwestern ruins your argument and ends this discussion.

That's fine and dandy. When doing rankings we go by results, strength of schedule, team at full strength ...things of that nature. And with the butt whipping Lincoln County put on Doss there isn't anything the refs could have done to stop the bum rush. Funny though, Lincoln County lost to LexCath on that same court. Also lost to South Oldham(albeit without their best player, point guard Timmy Taylor) on that court as well. How come some teams adjust and others don't?

 

That's fair enough.

 

I do think there's a little Louisville-bias from teams out in the state, whether they even consciously do it or not.

 

To illustrate my point about why Louisville schools going to play in those tournaments are going to have trouble, I'd say it's exactly the same, only in reverse as when a school in the 12th-16th gets down to the State Tournament and the refs aren't calling every little thing a foul anymore and they can't adjust.

 

Louisville school goes out in the state. Their best chance of winning in many cases is going to involve a game plan where they press and play physical. You can't do that when your better players are getting whistled out on things that they aren't used to being called fouls in 75+% of the games they'll play in.

 

I do think it's different when a Lexington Catholic goes to the 12th region because they're neighboring or in an otherwise proximal location to the area. They've probably played more games there, know how things are called, and probably have more recourse with the ratings, return games, etc. There are a variety of factors that would go into it.

 

 

You aren't going to convince me that Lincoln County would consistently play within 20 of Ballard. Maybe some of the other top teams in the State, but I think the ratings don't reflect a team's capacity to beat the best.

 

I have a hard time seeing Lincoln County competing in the 7th Region. Sure, they could knock off some teams on a given night, but, hypothetically speaking, if you switched the two team's regions, I'd imagine that Doss would fare just as well or better than Lincoln County in the 12th while Lincoln wouldn't do as well in the 6th. When they go to a big tournament like the Republic Bank Classic, King of the Bluegrass, etc. and compete with the best the State has to offer, I'll consider them.

 

Other than losing to 12th Region teams in tournaments hosted by 12th region teams (and neighboring Lexington Catholic), Doss has lost to Ballard twice and Waggener in OT.

 

You can't really tell me that you don't think there's something to it when they've lost to the undisputed #1 team in the State, twice no less, in Louisville, but get beat worse by 12th region teams in their own tournaments.

 

I think that those games with Ballard, plus wins over teams like PRP, Iroquois, Eastern, J-town, Southwestern Pulaski are more indicative of a good team than Lincoln County's losses to Montgomery County, South Oldham, Wayne County, and Lexington Catholic.

 

Some of Lincoln's bigger wins are over Taylor County, an erratic Bryan Station team, a young Madison Central team who probably isn't a top 20 team in the state, and some wins over teams outside their region in local tournaments.

 

At the end of the day, I think very few CKY/EKY schools could be competitive if they had to go through the 6th or 7th. This year, Wayne County, Knott County Central, and Perry County Central are probably the only ones you can say would fare just as well or better if they had to play in one of those regions as compared to a Louisville school going to theirs.

That's fair enough.

 

I do think there's a little Louisville-bias from teams out in the state, whether they even consciously do it or not.

 

To illustrate my point about why Louisville schools going to play in those tournaments are going to have trouble, I'd say it's exactly the same, only in reverse as when a school in the 12th-16th gets down to the State Tournament and the refs aren't calling every little thing a foul anymore and they can't adjust.

 

Louisville school goes out in the state. Their best chance of winning in many cases is going to involve a game plan where they press and play physical. You can't do that when your better players are getting whistled out on things that they aren't used to being called fouls in 75+% of the games they'll play in.

 

I do think it's different when a Lexington Catholic goes to the 12th region because they're neighboring or in an otherwise proximal location to the area. They've probably played more games there, know how things are called, and probably have more recourse with the ratings, return games, etc. There are a variety of factors that would go into it.

 

 

You aren't going to convince me that Lincoln County would consistently play within 20 of Ballard. Maybe some of the other top teams in the State, but I think the ratings don't reflect a team's capacity to beat the best.

 

I have a hard time seeing Lincoln County competing in the 7th Region. Sure, they could knock off some teams on a given night, but, hypothetically speaking, if you switched the two team's regions, I'd imagine that Doss would fare just as well or better than Lincoln County in the 12th while Lincoln wouldn't do as well in the 6th.

 

Other than losing to 12th Region teams in tournaments hosted by 12th region teams (and neighboring Lexington Catholic), Doss has lost to Ballard twice and Waggener in OT.

 

You can't really tell me that you don't think there's something to it when they've lost to the undisputed #1 team in the State, twice no less, in Louisville, but get beat worse by 12th region teams in their own tournaments.

 

I think that those games with Ballard, plus wins over teams like PRP, Iroquois, Eastern, J-town, Southwestern Pulaski are more indicative of a good team than Lincoln County's losses to Montgomery County, South Oldham, Wayne County, and Lexington Catholic.

 

Some of Lincoln's bigger wins are over Taylor County, an erratic Bryan Station team, a young Madison Central team who probably isn't a top 20 team in the state, and some wins over teams outside their region in local tournaments.

 

At the end of the day, I think very few CKY/EKY schools could be competitive if they had to go through the 6th or 7th. This year, Wayne County, Knott County Central, and Perry County Central are probably the only ones you can say would fare just as well or better if they had to play in one of those regions as compared to a Louisville school going to theirs.

 

Lincoln County beat Bullitt East by 12. Does that not count either?

Lincoln County beat Bullitt East by 12. Does that not count either?

 

Put it this way: who has Lincoln County beaten outside of a game played in the 12th Region? When all of your marquee wins are games where teams from out in the state come to your region's holiday tournament, that tells me something.

 

Taylor County at Lexington Catholic, a Fleming County team either missing their best player or just getting him back from major injury, a young Madison Central team, Bryan Station and Dunbar (who didn't have one of their better players then and still hasn't proven that they're for real in the 11th).

 

Send Russell County to Doss and I'm gonna go with Doss.

 

I think of it like this:

 

I can list the teams in the State would could play Ballard as well as Doss has on one or two hands. Scott County, PRP, Hopkinsville, NCC, PRP, Cov Cath, Wayne County, Holmes. It looks a lot like the BGP Top 10 list.

 

Now list the teams in the State that could beat Taylor County, get a win over UHA, Doss, Bullitt East and some middle of the pack 11th Region teams who came to them for their own events: you are going to need more than two hands to count.

 

If Lincoln Co was beating those teams in the Republic Bank, King of the Bluegrass, LIT, or events like the Joe B. Hall, then that's completely different to me.

If Lincoln and Doss switched, both would still be the second best teams in their region.

 

I don't think Lincoln gets much respect since they don't have much name recognition. I knew next to nothing about them in the preseason. I remember somebody in the offseason was talking about how they had a point guard who might be one of the best in the state. I just assumed it was probably somebody who was a fan of the school or region who didn't know much about basketball statewide. I assumed since I hadn't heard of the kid, and he wasn't highly ranked anywhere that he couldn't be that good. I was wrong, and I think a lot of people might be doubting Lincoln for the same reason.

I can list the teams in the State would could play Ballard as well as Doss has on one or two hands. Scott County, PRP, Hopkinsville, NCC, PRP, Cov Cath, Wayne County, Holmes. It looks a lot like the BGP Top 10 list.

 

How about Male and Central?

If Lincoln and Doss switched, both would still be the second best teams in their region.

 

I don't think Lincoln gets much respect since they don't have much name recognition. I knew next to nothing about them in the preseason. I remember somebody in the offseason was talking about how they had a point guard who might be one of the best in the state. I just assumed it was probably somebody who was a fan of the school or region who didn't know much about basketball statewide. I assumed since I hadn't heard of the kid, and he wasn't highly ranked anywhere that he couldn't be that good. I was wrong, and I think a lot of people might be doubting Lincoln for the same reason.

 

 

I understand where you are coming from with that, but I think the same could be said for Doss.

 

I know Lincoln County has some kids that would play for Doss, but how many Doss kids do you think would play for Lincoln County?

 

Seeing Seneca match up with Scott County a few years back really opened my eyes. They were a team that was around the 25 range most of the year. They came in to Scott County, a tough place to play, and practically had them beat.

 

They had a kid that crushed one of the grossest alley-oops off an inbound that I've ever seen. He did that on Ge'lawn Guyn's head. That's a D1 talent getting one dropped on his head. They also had a different kid, Shaw, the older brother the kid whose probably St. X's best player this year, who was just as good as almost anyone I'd seen that year on the high school level.

 

I'm guessing that schools like Seneca, Iroquois, and Doss don't exactly get the royal treatment when they play some of the big name teams in Louisville (i.e., Ballard, PRP, Male/Eastern when they're up, Trinity) if you know what I'm saying.

How about Male and Central?

 

Why not Euless Trinity in Texas or Riverside in Louisiana if we're going to cherry-pick performances. Central is a well coached team that has some talent in most years, so I can see how they might catch Ballard overlooking them and stay close.

 

We're talking about one of their worst performances of the year being against a Louisville school that's been to the Sweet 16 multiple times under that Coach in the past decade and were a double OT game away from winning state.

That's fair enough.

 

I do think there's a little Louisville-bias from teams out in the state, whether they even consciously do it or not.

 

To illustrate my point about why Louisville schools going to play in those tournaments are going to have trouble, I'd say it's exactly the same, only in reverse as when a school in the 12th-16th gets down to the State Tournament and the refs aren't calling every little thing a foul anymore and they can't adjust.

 

Louisville school goes out in the state. Their best chance of winning in many cases is going to involve a game plan where they press and play physical. You can't do that when your better players are getting whistled out on things that they aren't used to being called fouls in 75+% of the games they'll play in.

 

I do think it's different when a Lexington Catholic goes to the 12th region because they're neighboring or in an otherwise proximal location to the area. They've probably played more games there, know how things are called, and probably have more recourse with the ratings, return games, etc. There are a variety of factors that would go into it.

 

 

You aren't going to convince me that Lincoln County would consistently play within 20 of Ballard. Maybe some of the other top teams in the State, but I think the ratings don't reflect a team's capacity to beat the best.

 

I have a hard time seeing Lincoln County competing in the 7th Region. Sure, they could knock off some teams on a given night, but, hypothetically speaking, if you switched the two team's regions, I'd imagine that Doss would fare just as well or better than Lincoln County in the 12th while Lincoln wouldn't do as well in the 6th. When they go to a big tournament like the Republic Bank Classic, King of the Bluegrass, etc. and compete with the best the State has to offer, I'll consider them.

 

Other than losing to 12th Region teams in tournaments hosted by 12th region teams (and neighboring Lexington Catholic), Doss has lost to Ballard twice and Waggener in OT.

 

You can't really tell me that you don't think there's something to it when they've lost to the undisputed #1 team in the State, twice no less, in Louisville, but get beat worse by 12th region teams in their own tournaments.

 

I think that those games with Ballard, plus wins over teams like PRP, Iroquois, Eastern, J-town, Southwestern Pulaski are more indicative of a good team than Lincoln County's losses to Montgomery County, South Oldham, Wayne County, and Lexington Catholic.

 

Some of Lincoln's bigger wins are over Taylor County, an erratic Bryan Station team, a young Madison Central team who probably isn't a top 20 team in the state, and some wins over teams outside their region in local tournaments.

 

At the end of the day, I think very few CKY/EKY schools could be competitive if they had to go through the 6th or 7th. This year, Wayne County, Knott County Central, and Perry County Central are probably the only ones you can say would fare just as well or better if they had to play in one of those regions as compared to a Louisville school going to theirs.

 

According to Cantrell there are now 8 teams from Louisville and 7 from cen/eastern ky in the top 25. I'm excluding the 11th. Not sold on your theory this particular year.

Put it this way: who has Lincoln County beaten outside of a game played in the 12th Region? When all of your marquee wins are games where teams from out in the state come to your region's holiday tournament, that tells me something.

 

Taylor County at Lexington Catholic, a Fleming County team either missing their best player or just getting him back from major injury, a young Madison Central team, Bryan Station and Dunbar (who didn't have one of their better players then and still hasn't proven that they're for real in the 11th).

 

Send Russell County to Doss and I'm gonna go with Doss.

 

I think of it like this:

 

I can list the teams in the State would could play Ballard as well as Doss has on one or two hands. Scott County, PRP, Hopkinsville, NCC, PRP, Cov Cath, Wayne County, Holmes. It looks a lot like the BGP Top 10 list.

 

Now list the teams in the State that could beat Taylor County, get a win over UHA, Doss, Bullitt East and some middle of the pack 11th Region teams who came to them for their own events: you are going to need more than two hands to count.

 

If Lincoln Co was beating those teams in the Republic Bank, King of the Bluegrass, LIT, or events like the Joe B. Hall, then that's completely different to me.

 

That makes you just as biased as the so called anti-Lousville bias.

 

If people don't want holiday tournament results to count against them then don't go play in them. Games are games to me. Cream rises to the top. The best teams win. It's funny to me to say Lincoln County is good if they can go to Louisville and beat Doss but they aren't any good if they stay in CKY and beat Doss. Especially when Doss has proven they can come to CKY and beat quality teams on their home court in holiday tournaments.

According to Cantrell there are now 8 teams from Louisville and 7 from cen/eastern ky in the top 25. I'm excluding the 11th. Not sold on your theory this particular year.

 

Neither am I. After the top 5 teams the entire 6-20 teams are all capable to defeating each other.

Why not Euless Trinity in Texas or Riverside in Louisiana if we're going to cherry-pick performances. Central is a well coached team that has some talent in most years, so I can see how they might catch Ballard overlooking them and stay close.

 

We're talking about one of their worst performances of the year being against a Louisville school that's been to the Sweet 16 multiple times under that Coach in the past decade and were a double OT game away from winning state.

 

I think the point is there are a lot more than 10 teams in the state that can play within 10-20 points of Ballard. If Male and Central can, I don't see any reason Lincoln Co. couldn't.

Dont argue with purple. He prob played basketball at Bowling Green back in the day and knows what hes talking about.

That makes you just as biased as the so called anti-Lousville bias.

 

If people don't want holiday tournament results to count against them then don't go play in them. Games are games to me. Cream rises to the top. The best teams win. It's funny to me to say Lincoln County is good if they can go to Louisville and beat Doss but they aren't any good if they stay in CKY and beat Doss. Especially when Doss has proven they can come to CKY and beat quality teams on their home court in holiday tournaments.

 

Hadn't thought of the bolded like that, but it's a good point.