Is that example the same as what Snowden did?

 

I don't think we will ever know what Snowden gave away in those countries he hide in. I think Snowden crossed the line into traitor when he fled. I also believe the NSA and its leaders committed a crime against the American people and lied under oath to congress on what they were doing. I feel Snowden may have had the right intentions but execution was flawed and he deserves punishment. But I do not believe the NSA and it's leader are innocent either.

I'm not saying that he should be treated differently, I was just pointing out the two different ways people are looking at this.

 

My Personal Opinion which I haven't really given yet is that he broke the law and very rarely is that the answer. I have to think there was a way to do this, alert the American people, without releasing the secrets that he had sworn to protect.

 

He deserves punishment for his crime.

 

Part of my problem is I don't think directions from an offical in the NSA should trump the constitution. When the NSA is lying to congress what other choices or resources would one have to prove the NSA overstepping.

Part of my problem is I don't think directions from an offical in the NSA should trump the constitution. When the NSA is lying to congress what other choices or resources would one have to prove the NSA overstepping.

Could have went to congress himself, but I think the political machine would have eaten him up. Not sure where he could have went but I think he could have achieved the same thing without releasing all of the documents that he did...but he was 28 or 29 when he did this, I know most 29 year old's "Think" they know it all and have all of the answers.

Could have went to congress himself, but I think the political machine would have eaten him up. Not sure where he could have went but I think he could have achieved the same thing without releasing all of the documents that he did...but he was 28 or 29 when he did this, I know most 29 year old's "Think" they know it all and have all of the answers.

 

Like I said I don't think he did it right. I'm just wondering if he felt trapped. I do think once he fled he lost any support I may have gave him. I still think NSA officals need to be punished.

I

My Personal Opinion which I haven't really given yet is that he broke the law and very rarely is that the answer. I have to think there was a way to do this, alert the American people, without releasing the secrets that he had sworn to protect.

 

H.

 

How?

I don't think we will ever know what Snowden gave away in those countries he hide in. I think Snowden crossed the line into traitor when he fled. I also believe the NSA and its leaders committed a crime against the American people and lied under oath to congress on what they were doing. I feel Snowden may have had the right intentions but execution was flawed and he deserves punishment. But I do not believe the NSA and it's leader are innocent either.

 

 

So if he did what he did (leaked the docs to reporter) but stayed in the US and was arrested then he's not a traitor?

As soon as he leaked the documents that did it for me.

How?

Not sure, could have maybe done the same thing but on a much smaller scale...that would have at least helped him in the poll of public opinion and could have tried to use the rest of the documents as a bargaining chip to stay out of prison for the rest of his life.

I think Snowden crossed the line into traitor when he fled.

 

Again what else was he supposed to do once all this hit the fan? He would have been killed or at least tried to fullest extent and likely faced some torturous punishment. I don't think he had a choice but to flee, either that or you would eventually find him in a "tragic accident", or "suicide" quote on quote (or in other terms he would have been CIA'd).

As soon as he leaked the documents that did it for me.

 

Would you rather know that the government has an agency that likely sees every text you send, every web page you view, every email you send, every phone call you make or would you just rather be in the dark about it all?

 

Personally it infuriates me to know that my rights are being infringed upon for no good reason. Other than a speeding ticket that was expounged I have nothing on my record, so why would they have to look at everything I send or look at? Eventually it will get to a point where people will be trialed and evidence will be used against them that was obtained through these means. Again its unconstitutional. At least Snowden brought this realization to the American public and I thank him for it.

 

An example of evidence being used against you is per say a situation like this. Say somebody drove from Kentucky to Florida on vacation, let's say somehow he ended up with an organized group and they burned an American flag that weekend. Well if he was tried for the crime, the prosecutor can then be like, well Mr. so and so why did you do that in Florida this weekend? The defendent could argue he didn't burn a flag although he was in Florida. Okay this is where it gets interesting and where the NSA (and other like organizations) could get involved. The prosecutor can then say, well mr. so and so here we have records of text messages you sent showing that you were going to Florida to participate with this group. We tracked your gps and facebook posts as you traveled there so we know you were in Florida at this exact time. We also have a transaction from your credit card from Wal-Mart showing you purchased an American flag at their store, later you purchased a gas jug and a gallon of gas. You also snapped a picture on your phone (although not posted to social media) showing you with a burning American flag......

 

 

Moral of the story is before too long you will start to see people punished for crimes via evidence such as this and in a way it should be unconstitutional. The only evidence that should be held against you is physical evidence but eventually the NSA and government/judicial organizations will be able to use your own "private" interractions against you. Things that are supposed to be secret and private, well not so much anymore because there is no such thing.

I did hear some good news about the NSA though. Heard from a friend that they were a top of the line government agency and perhaps the best government agency there is. I mean they're the only government agency that actually listens to you.

He's a traitor in my eyes. Why? He had a job working for the government and made his own call about what is right and wrong. He released that information when he shouldn't have and then fled the country looking for asylum.

 

Smells like a traitor to me.

 

 

This is why I think of him more as a traitor. Actually he had info the American people probably needed to know...hey guys, your government is spying on you illegally. However, once he fled the country and took harbor in an "enemy" country with tons of info that said country does not need to have because of national security issues...at that point he became a traitor. JMO.

Which foreign enemy did he give anything to?

 

He's sitting in Russia. Don't think for a second Putin isn't throwing back a shot of their best vodka every hour on the hour celebrating what he has in his hands.

This is why I think of him more as a traitor. Actually he had info the American people probably needed to know...hey guys, your government is spying on you illegally. However, once he fled the country and took harbor in an "enemy" country with tons of info that said country does not need to have because of national security issues...at that point he became a traitor. JMO.

 

Let me ask you this though. If he had stayed in the US and not leaked the documents to any other country do you think he would have avoided punishment? I highly doubt it. He done the American thing by sticking up for our freedoms, but then America would have done the American thing and executed him for it. It was a lose-lose for him IMO. No way he goes unpunished if he stays in the states, they have to sign confidentiality forms and everything so he was screwed. So with that in mind I find it hard to hate on him for getting the heck out of dodge. Sounded like a long stay down in Guantanamo to me.

Would you rather know that the government has an agency that likely sees every text you send, every web page you view, every email you send, every phone call you make or would you just rather be in the dark about it all?

 

Personally it infuriates me to know that my rights are being infringed upon for no good reason. Other than a speeding ticket that was expounged I have nothing on my record, so why would they have to look at everything I send or look at? Eventually it will get to a point where people will be trialed and evidence will be used against them that was obtained through these means. Again its unconstitutional. At least Snowden brought this realization to the American public and I thank him for it.

 

An example of evidence being used against you is per say a situation like this. Say somebody drove from Kentucky to Florida on vacation, let's say somehow he ended up with an organized group and they burned an American flag that weekend. Well if he was tried for the crime, the prosecutor can then be like, well Mr. so and so why did you do that in Florida this weekend? The defendent could argue he didn't burn a flag although he was in Florida. Okay this is where it gets interesting and where the NSA (and other like organizations) could get involved. The prosecutor can then say, well mr. so and so here we have records of text messages you sent showing that you were going to Florida to participate with this group. We tracked your gps and facebook posts as you traveled there so we know you were in Florida at this exact time. We also have a transaction from your credit card from Wal-Mart showing you purchased an American flag at their store, later you purchased a gas jug and a gallon of gas. You also snapped a picture on your phone (although not posted to social media) showing you with a burning American flag......

 

 

Moral of the story is before too long you will start to see people punished for crimes via evidence such as this and in a way it should be unconstitutional. The only evidence that should be held against you is physical evidence but eventually the NSA and government/judicial organizations will be able to use your own "private" interractions against you. Things that are supposed to be secret and private, well not so much anymore because there is no such thing.

 

Doesn't matter. If he was naive enough to believe that he wouldn't be doing questionable things while working for the NSA then that's his own stupid fault. It's not his place to decide what is right and wrong. He could have compromised our country with his actions. What if what he was doing was something you morally disagreed with? Does that make it wrong then?