You and your NRA pals ought to be more worried about the exorbitant increase in the price of ammunition (unfettered capitalism) instead of circulating these persecution/outlaw myths.

Since you know nothing of guns, or capitalism, I will try to explain it to you (& I'll use small words so that you can understand).

 

It was "Fettered" capitalism (not "UN"fettered) that caused the increase in ammunition prices. It was difficult to obtain certain calibres of bullets while domestic government services (NOT the armed services) uncharacteristically ordered over a BILLION rounds.

 

Government interference tends to skew the markets that way.

Since you know nothing of guns, or capitalism, I will try to explain it to you (& I'll use small words so that you can understand).

 

It was "Fettered" capitalism (not "UN"fettered) that caused the increase in ammunition prices. It was difficult to obtain certain calibres of bullets while domestic government services (NOT the armed services) uncharacteristically ordered over a BILLION rounds.

 

Government interference tends to skew the markets that way.

If you're going to be condescending, at least attempt an answer that's more inclusive than "it's the government's fault."

 

Here are four reasons why ammo prices have gone up:

 

(1) The re-election of President Obama started a new rush to buy firearms — not that the previous "rush" from his initial election in 2008 had really slowed down at all.

 

(2) The Sandy Hook tragedy brought renewed calls for more gun control laws. In reaction to this, concerned citizens decided they better buy up all the guns and ammunition they can now while they can still get it. Thus there is a large degree of hoarding going on right now.

 

(3) There is a shortage of some of the raw materials used in the manufacture of ammunition, brass for cartridge cases for instance.

 

(4) Large purchases of ammunition being made by the federal government, not just for the military, but also for those federal agencies that have a role in law enforcement.

 

Where Has All The Ammo Gone? | Buckeye Firearms Association

You and your NRA pals ought to be more worried about the exorbitant increase in the price of ammunition (unfettered capitalism) instead of circulating these persecution/outlaw myths.

Just who might my NRA pals be? Quick, answer this since you know me so well. Am I a member of the NRA?

 

I'm more concerned that the weakening dollar is a big reason why ammo is so expensive. I'm also very concerned that Democrats think people are stupid enough to believe that banning guns will remove them from the street. I'm also more concerned that every time some idiot shoots up some gun free zone, the president and his minions start using it as insufficient justification to pass their thoughtless, useless legislation. I'm more concerned that, even though they've shown themselves for what they are and what they truly want that people like yourself would rather bury their head in the sand than to admit they've talked ridiculous, useless bans already far too often.

 

Here's an example of your so called "myth" of outright bans that was considered earlier this year and I guarantee you will be brought up again in the very near future:

 

Rifles: All AK types, including the following:

 

AK, AK47, AK47S, AK-74, AKM, AKS, ARM, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Rock River Arms LAR-47, SA85, SA93, Vector Arms AK-47, VEPR, WASR-10, and WUM, IZHMASH Saiga AK, MAADI AK47 and ARM, Norinco 56S, 56S2, 84S, and 86S, Poly Technologies AK47 and AK.

 

All AR types, including the following:

 

AR-10, AR-15, Armalite M15 22LR Carbine, Armalite M15-T, Barrett REC7, Beretta AR-70, Bushmaster ACR, Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster MOE series, Bushmaster XM15, Colt Match Target Rifles, DoubleStar AR rifles, DPMS Tactical Rifles, Heckler & Koch MR556, Olympic Arms, Remington R-15 rifles, Rock River Arms LAR-15, Sig Sauer SIG516 rifles, Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles, Stag Arms AR rifles, Sturm, Ruger & Co. SR556 rifles; Barrett M107A1; Barrett M82A1; Beretta CX4 Storm; Calico Liberty Series; CETME Sporter; Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C; Fabrique Nationale/FN Herstal FAL, LAR, 22 FNC, 308 Match, L1A1 Sporter, PS90, SCAR, and FS2000; Feather Industries AT-9; Galil Model AR and Model ARM; Hi-Point Carbine; HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, HK-PSG-1 and HK USC; Kel-Tec Sub-2000, SU-16, and RFB; SIG AMT, SIG PE-57, Sig Sauer SG 550, and Sig Sauer SG 551; Springfield Armory SAR-48; Steyr AUG; Sturm, Ruger Mini-14 Tactical Rife M-14/20CF.

 

All Thompson rifles, including the following:

 

Thompson M1SB, Thompson T1100D, Thompson T150D, Thompson T1B, Thompson T1B100D, Thompson T1B50D, Thompson T1BSB, Thompson T1-C, Thompson T1D, Thompson T1SB, Thompson T5, Thompson T5100D, Thompson TM1, Thompson TM1C; UMAREX UZI Rifle; UZI Mini Carbine, UZI Model A Carbine, and UZI Model B Carbine; Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78; Vector Arms UZI Type; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine.

 

Pistols: All AK-47 types, including the following:

 

Centurion 39 AK pistol, Draco AK-47 pistol, HCR AK-47 pistol, IO Inc. Hellpup AK-47 pistol, Krinkov pistol, Mini Draco AK-47 pistol, Yugo Krebs Krink pistol;

 

All AR-15 types, including the following: American Spirit AR-15 pistol, Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol, DoubleStar Corporation AR pistol, DPMS AR-15 pistol, Olympic Arms AR-15 pistol, Rock River Arms LAR 15 pistol; Calico Liberty pistols; DSA SA58 PKP FAL pistol; Encom MP-9 and MP-45; Heckler & Koch model SP-89 pistol; Intratec AB-10, TEC-22 Scorpion, TEC-9, and TEC-DC9; Kel-Tec PLR 16 pistol.

 

The following MAC types: MAC-10, MAC-11; Masterpiece Arms MPA A930 Mini Pistol, MPA460 Pistol, MPA Tactical Pistol, and MPA Mini Tactical Pistol; Military Armament Corp. Ingram M-11, Velocity Arms VMAC; Sig Sauer P556 pistol; Sites Spectre.

 

All Thompson types, including the following:

Thompson TA510D, Thompson TA5; All UZI types, including: Micro-UZI.

 

Shotguns: Franchi LAW-12 and SPAS 12; All IZHMASH Saiga 12 types, including the following: IZHMASH Saiga 12, IZHMASH Saiga 12S, IZHMASH Saiga 12S EXP-01, IZHMASH Saiga 12K, IZHMASH Saiga 12K-030, IZHMASH Saiga 12K-040 Taktika; Streetsweeper; Striker 12.

 

Belt-fed semiautomatic firearms: All belt-fed semiautomatic firearms including TNW M2HB.

 

This was from the "Assault Weapons" Ban of 2013 from that bastion of gun rights Dianne Feinstein and her cohorts in 2nd Amendment preservation Chuck Schumer and Dick Durbin.

 

Yeah...myth. :lol2:

 

We all remember the call from the president and fellow democrats for round limitations after Sandy Hook as well, right? How they shamelessly used the deaths of those children to try to push their agenda? Yeah, there's no reason for concern from gun owners...

Edited November 29, 201312 yr by Run To State

Just who might my NRA pals be? Quick, answer this since you know me so well. Am I a member of the NRA?

 

I'm more concerned that the weakening dollar is a big reason why ammo is so expensive. I'm also very concerned that Democrats think people are stupid enough to believe that banning guns will remove them from the street. I'm also more concerned that every time some idiot shoots up some gun free zone, the president and his minions start using it as insufficient justification to pass their thoughtless, useless legislation. I'm more concerned that, even though they've shown themselves for what they are and what they truly want that people like yourself would rather bury their head in the sand than to admit they've talked ridiculous, useless bans already far too often.

 

Here's an example of your so called "myth" of outright bans that was considered earlier this year and I guarantee you will be brought up again in the very near future:

 

Rifles: All AK types, including the following:

 

AK, AK47, AK47S, AK-74, AKM, AKS, ARM, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Rock River Arms LAR-47, SA85, SA93, Vector Arms AK-47, VEPR, WASR-10, and WUM, IZHMASH Saiga AK, MAADI AK47 and ARM, Norinco 56S, 56S2, 84S, and 86S, Poly Technologies AK47 and AK.

 

All AR types, including the following:

 

AR-10, AR-15, Armalite M15 22LR Carbine, Armalite M15-T, Barrett REC7, Beretta AR-70, Bushmaster ACR, Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster MOE series, Bushmaster XM15, Colt Match Target Rifles, DoubleStar AR rifles, DPMS Tactical Rifles, Heckler & Koch MR556, Olympic Arms, Remington R-15 rifles, Rock River Arms LAR-15, Sig Sauer SIG516 rifles, Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles, Stag Arms AR rifles, Sturm, Ruger & Co. SR556 rifles; Barrett M107A1; Barrett M82A1; Beretta CX4 Storm; Calico Liberty Series; CETME Sporter; Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C; Fabrique Nationale/FN Herstal FAL, LAR, 22 FNC, 308 Match, L1A1 Sporter, PS90, SCAR, and FS2000; Feather Industries AT-9; Galil Model AR and Model ARM; Hi-Point Carbine; HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, HK-PSG-1 and HK USC; Kel-Tec Sub-2000, SU-16, and RFB; SIG AMT, SIG PE-57, Sig Sauer SG 550, and Sig Sauer SG 551; Springfield Armory SAR-48; Steyr AUG; Sturm, Ruger Mini-14 Tactical Rife M-14/20CF.

 

All Thompson rifles, including the following:

 

Thompson M1SB, Thompson T1100D, Thompson T150D, Thompson T1B, Thompson T1B100D, Thompson T1B50D, Thompson T1BSB, Thompson T1-C, Thompson T1D, Thompson T1SB, Thompson T5, Thompson T5100D, Thompson TM1, Thompson TM1C; UMAREX UZI Rifle; UZI Mini Carbine, UZI Model A Carbine, and UZI Model B Carbine; Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78; Vector Arms UZI Type; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine.

 

Pistols: All AK-47 types, including the following:

 

Centurion 39 AK pistol, Draco AK-47 pistol, HCR AK-47 pistol, IO Inc. Hellpup AK-47 pistol, Krinkov pistol, Mini Draco AK-47 pistol, Yugo Krebs Krink pistol;

 

All AR-15 types, including the following: American Spirit AR-15 pistol, Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol, DoubleStar Corporation AR pistol, DPMS AR-15 pistol, Olympic Arms AR-15 pistol, Rock River Arms LAR 15 pistol; Calico Liberty pistols; DSA SA58 PKP FAL pistol; Encom MP-9 and MP-45; Heckler & Koch model SP-89 pistol; Intratec AB-10, TEC-22 Scorpion, TEC-9, and TEC-DC9; Kel-Tec PLR 16 pistol.

 

The following MAC types: MAC-10, MAC-11; Masterpiece Arms MPA A930 Mini Pistol, MPA460 Pistol, MPA Tactical Pistol, and MPA Mini Tactical Pistol; Military Armament Corp. Ingram M-11, Velocity Arms VMAC; Sig Sauer P556 pistol; Sites Spectre.

 

All Thompson types, including the following:

Thompson TA510D, Thompson TA5; All UZI types, including: Micro-UZI.

 

Shotguns: Franchi LAW-12 and SPAS 12; All IZHMASH Saiga 12 types, including the following: IZHMASH Saiga 12, IZHMASH Saiga 12S, IZHMASH Saiga 12S EXP-01, IZHMASH Saiga 12K, IZHMASH Saiga 12K-030, IZHMASH Saiga 12K-040 Taktika; Streetsweeper; Striker 12.

 

Belt-fed semiautomatic firearms: All belt-fed semiautomatic firearms including TNW M2HB.

 

This was from the "Assault Weapons" Ban of 2013 from that bastion of gun rights Dianne Feinstein and her cohorts in 2nd Amendment preservation Chuck Schumer and Dick Durbin.

 

Yeah...myth. :lol2:

 

We all remember the call from the president and fellow democrats for round limitations after Sandy Hook as well, right? How they shamelessly used the deaths of those children to try to push their agenda? Yeah, there's no reason for concern from gun owners...

You sure can cloud up a debate with your facts.

You sure can cloud up a debate with your facts.

When people like RTS make sweeping generalizations -- as he did in Post #12 -- that only fuels the hysteria and causes more gun nuts to hoard ammo. I see no evidence that the Obama administration is involved in a persecution of ALL gun owners, as RTS claims. That is an outlandish statement. As far as banning certain types of weapons ... yes, I'm in favor of such. I'm also in favor of expanded background checks.

You and your NRA pals ought to be more worried about the exorbitant increase in the price of ammunition (unfettered capitalism) instead of circulating these persecution/outlaw myths.

 

Please! Are you from another planet? Good grief.

When people like RTS make sweeping generalizations -- as he did in Post #12 -- that only fuels the hysteria and causes more gun nuts to hoard ammo. I see no evidence that the Obama administration is involved in a persecution of ALL gun owners, as RTS claims. That is an outlandish statement. As far as banning certain types of weapons ... yes, I'm in favor of such. I'm also in favor of expanded background checks.

So, you quote some generalizations about what you perceive to be argument in your favor. Is that the best approach? Really? You think the administration has no culpability in this issue? Really?

 

And your reply will go a long way, for me at least, in making my determination about your sensibility about the issue or lack thereof.

So, you quote some generalizations about what you perceive to be argument in your favor. Is that the best approach? Really? You think the administration has no culpability in this issue? Really?

 

And your reply will go a long way, for me at least, in making my determination about your sensibility about the issue or lack thereof.

Sounds like we need to set up a course in remedial logic for members of the BGP 2nd Amendment Club.

 

RTS said: "If you believe the president and the majority of the Democrats don't want to persecute all gun owners and do their best to outlaw guns, I have some swampland you might be interested in."

 

Did you skip over the word "all"? How is my son, who owns a pellet rifle and a couple of shotguns, going to be "persecuted" by the government and Democrats? Provide some examples please. Or was RTS -- normally a fairly sensible poster -- just engaging in a little-too-much-turkey-and-dressing hyperbole here?

 

As far as the culpability issue, I would certainly hope the executive branch continues to push for a ban on certain types of firearms as well as hammer away on expanded background checks. I know that view is in the minority among the suburban Republicans who dominate this board, but there's no reason to tap-dance around this issue.

Sounds like we need to set up a course in remedial logic for members of the BGP 2nd Amendment Club.

 

RTS said: "If you believe the president and the majority of the Democrats don't want to persecute all gun owners and do their best to outlaw guns, I have some swampland you might be interested in."

 

Did you skip over the word "all"? How is my son, who owns a pellet rifle and a couple of shotguns, going to be "persecuted" by the government and Democrats? Provide some examples please. Or was RTS -- normally a fairly sensible poster -- just engaging in a little-too-much-turkey-and-dressing hyperbole here?

 

As far as the culpability issue, I would certainly hope the executive branch continues to push for a ban on certain types of firearms as well as hammer away on expanded background checks. I know that view is in the minority among the suburban Republicans who dominate this board, but there's no reason to tap-dance around this issue.

You act like it's just the Rs who have some sort of insensibility. I'm not opposed to more scrutiny with regard to background check. But you post with the slant of your side of the aisle, a lot of rhetoric in your post angled opposed to any disdain from the R side of the aisle. So, with all due respect, I disagree with the totality of the ban that "many" Ds support. Flavor of the month if you ask me. Most of which is kneejerk response. I'm all for more responsible ownership and handling of guns. I can find no credible literature with any historical data attached that says a ban will make things better. As a matter of fact, there seems to be an awful lot in the other direction.

When people like RTS make sweeping generalizations -- as he did in Post #12 -- that only fuels the hysteria and causes more gun nuts to hoard ammo. I see no evidence that the Obama administration is involved in a persecution of ALL gun owners, as RTS claims. That is an outlandish statement. As far as banning certain types of weapons ... yes, I'm in favor of such. I'm also in favor of expanded background checks.

It's not a generalization, it's what a lot of them want. I won't say all Dems because there are those that support guns and gun rights. Rhetoric from the president like "We can't rest until all of our children can go to school or walk down the street free from the fear that they will be struck down by a stray bullet" or "Every day we wait to act on guns, the number of victims will keep growing" is nothing short of fear mongering to push an agenda and we know what that agenda is. Remember, the president said himself that he would use "whatever weight this office holds" to achieve his agenda.

 

The reason you are in favor is because you've been led to believe the lies, half truths and misrepresentations of the very guns you're talking about. You show you have very little, if any, knowledge of them, just what you've been told to believe.

 

What you and the president also don't seem to grasp (in the presidents case I think he knows it but acknowledging it won't help push his agenda) is that the proposed bans and gun control measures that they've come up with won't stop any of the violence because it will only affect those that will abide by the law. Did the punk that shot the kids in Sandy Hook have to pass a background check? No. He illegally took the guns from his mother. The real problem is mental illness not guns, not gun collectors not gun supporters, not supporters of the 2nd Amendment.

 

By the way, you also (besides ignoring the falling value of the dollar over the years) left out the fact that more than 5 million women participate in shooting sports or own weapons, which is an increase of 46.5 percent since 2001, or perhaps you never knew that. That, plus the fact that gun ownership surpassed 100 million a few years ago so that's another reason for ammo prices being what they are, it's not all hoarding or " unfettered capitalism" as you claim.

 

Are you seriously expecting me to believe the president is sincere when he claims he doesn't want to intrude on or take away any 2nd Amendment rights when the man flat out lied about his own health care plan? I may have been born at night, but not last night.

Sounds like we need to set up a course in remedial logic for members of the BGP 2nd Amendment Club.

 

RTS said: "If you believe the president and the majority of the Democrats don't want to persecute all gun owners and do their best to outlaw guns, I have some swampland you might be interested in."

 

Did you skip over the word "all"? How is my son, who owns a pellet rifle and a couple of shotguns, going to be "persecuted" by the government and Democrats? Provide some examples please. Or was RTS -- normally a fairly sensible poster -- just engaging in a little-too-much-turkey-and-dressing hyperbole here?

 

As far as the culpability issue, I would certainly hope the executive branch continues to push for a ban on certain types of firearms as well as hammer away on expanded background checks. I know that view is in the minority among the suburban Republicans who dominate this board, but there's no reason to tap-dance around this issue.

No, RTS has been listening to what the president and many of the democrats have been saying for years now, unlike TTP. ANY guns banned directly affects ALL gun owners rights to buy said gun. Just because your son doesn't own any of them now doesn't mean he won't want to own them in the future, but I'm sure you're feeding him the "right" info on said weapons...

 

Why do you want these weapons banned? They look mean? They're black? They have a pistol grip? What exactly?

The reason you are in favor is because you've been led to believe the lies, half truths and misrepresentations of the very guns you're talking about. You show you have very little, if any, knowledge of them, just what you've been told to believe.

Yet another broad-brush stupidity.

Yet another broad-brush stupidity.

Yet you give no answer to the questions you've been asked and have the audacity to label anything as stupidity....

 

You said you're in favor of the bans, but you can't seem to say why.....

 

And of course, the broad brush you paint with is fair in your view.

Yet you give no answer to the questions you've been asked and have the audacity to label anything as stupidity....

 

You said you're in favor of the bans, but you can't seem to say why.....

 

And of course, the broad brush you paint with is fair in your view.

Let me put it to you this way: If the NRA, and the nut-job Republican lawmakers from Texas and Oklahoma, and the Ft. Thomas tea party members continue to oppose any tightening of gun laws and background checks, then such is going to bite them big time in presidential elections down the road.

 

"Just say no" is a losing proposition politically.

Let me put it to you this way: If the NRA, and the nut-job Republican lawmakers from Texas and Oklahoma, and the Ft. Thomas tea party members continue to oppose any tightening of gun laws and background checks, then such is going to bite them big time in presidential elections down the road.

 

"Just say no" is a losing proposition politically.

So, just to clarify, you aren't going to answer any of the questions. I think we all know why that is.