If that happened, then buildings would start collapsing like in Bangladesh.

 

Yep, I'm now officially dumber for reading this thread.

 

The scary thing is people that believe this garbage are reproducing and vote. Scary, scary world we live in.

Way to have a reasonable and intelligent conversation about this. You want to actually add something of value or just keep reciting your Pro Union posters?

Youse guys are too easy. Actually, there is some truth in that seemingly out-of-bounds Bangladesh statement. If bidding is opened up to all and everyone, then where does it stop?

Youse guys are too easy. Actually, there is some truth in that seemingly out-of-bounds Bangladesh statement. If bidding is opened up to all and everyone, then where does it stop?

It is now is it not? Are buildings falling into disrepair? Is Cincinnati sliding off into the Ohio? Again your rah rah union crap adds nothing to the discussion and only cost your credibility.

So I guess it comes down to my anecdotal accounts vs. yours. I also have 30 plus years in "the system." Here's how the system works: Some mid-level flunky manager in corporate or the company's HR person says Joe Worker needs to be fired because of his high health-care costs. Management invents a bogus reason for firing said person. Usually a bad performance review will suffice. If Joe Worker has a union at his back, he's got a solid chance of winning in an arbitration hearing. Or this gets headed off before it gathers any steam. That's the more likely scenario. If he doesn't, he's fried. Even if he does find a lawyer to take his case on commission, the company's lackey lawyers will start a series of never-ending delaying tactics to force Joe Worker to settle for 10 cents on the buck. If by chance the case even ends up in court, then the company will try to steer the case to a pro big-business Republican judge, which around here isn't too hard to find.

 

It's a rigged system. Get your head out of the sand. This is why we have unions.

 

Some people just refuse to be educated.

Youse guys are too easy. Actually, there is some truth in that seemingly out-of-bounds Bangladesh statement. If bidding is opened up to all and everyone, then where does it stop?

 

Florida is a right to work state with non-union contractors doing many public projects. I spend quite a bit of time there every year and my family lives there. I don't remember hearing about any of the MANY bridges that non-union contractors have built there collapsing.

 

How about you check qualifications of contractors that bid jobs AND examine their history of production rather then just evaluating their union status?

Yep, I'm now officially dumber for reading this thread.

 

The scary thing is people that believe this garbage are reproducing and vote. Scary, scary world we live in.

I love it when people say "The scary thing is ..." or "I can't make up something like this ..." In your case, the phrase "reproducing and vote" is very telling. Can we assume that you didn't vote for Obama last November?

Some people just refuse to be educated.

Great reply. You really put a lot of thought into that one.

I love it when people say "The scary thing is ..." or "I can't make up something like this ..." In your case, the phrase "reproducing and vote" is very telling. Can we assume that you didn't vote for Obama last November?

 

Nope, didn't vote for either of the two idiots running, and darn proud of it.

Great reply. You really put a lot of thought into that one.

 

If you really believe that non-union jobs are of poor quality, it's fair to call into question IMO.

You may well be correct about that. However, when it comes to criminal law, ignorance is not an excuse. I don't see employment law being much different. If you don't learn that stuff on your own, shame on you.

 

 

I agree. With the stuff I deal with on a daily basis.....please believe me when say...no when I scream I AGREE!!!!! :lol:

Youse guys are too easy. Actually, there is some truth in that seemingly out-of-bounds Bangladesh statement. If bidding is opened up to all and everyone, then where does it stop?

 

As far as your statement about Bangladesh is concerned, no, there is not any truth truth to it as far as it applies in the United States.

 

You seem to forget that when a job is being bid on, there are existing plans and specifications that are being bid on. In regards to a construction project, those plans and specs are created by a team of architects and/or engineers, all of whom are licensed by that governmental entity to design that specific type of work. Great pains are taken to detail the work to be completed PRIOR to the bidding process in order to make sure that the product they put out for bid is as specifically outlined as possible prior to any contractors even looking at the plans or specs. Furthermore, come bid day, the low bidder is awarded the project, but only after a review of their bid proposal to make sure that it is first and foremost, a complete bid - meaning that they haven't accidentally or intentionally overlooked any of the requirements for the project. Once construction begins, there is also an entire laid out structure of inspections and construction-review to be performed by the design team in order to ensure that the product that is delivered is in fact to the specification of the product that was ordered.

 

After all that, if anything similar to the collapses in Bangladesh were to take place on a government job in the United States, it would show, clearly, that many many more failures took place than simply a failure on the part of the "inept non-union contractor" that you have alluded to.

 

You should have looked a little more into how things work during your "30 plus years in 'the system' ". I'm surprised you didn't pick that up in your company's apprenticeship program...since apprenticeship programs are apparently the answer to every problem in the construction industry.

If you really believe that non-union jobs are of poor quality, it's fair to call into question IMO.

In post No. 104, I simply laid out the argument why it's better to be union than non-union when management wants to get rid of you for reasons unrelated to job performance. I get the impression that not many of the free-enterprise Republicans who frequent this thread have had much experience dealing with the dark side of corporate America.

On that we can agree. However, you have to be open to the fact that what's not being told could be something that union supporters don't want to hear. To blindly show allegiance to either side in all cases is silly. That's why I may not always agree with PP92, but I at least respect him for acknowledging both sides positives/negatives.

 

Thank you. I do appreciate that. I have grown up a lot and learned a ton about myself and about people in general in my current role in the last year. A lot of my perspective on many different issues has changed dramatically even in the last month or so. Being able to see, talk to, grow with, spend time with and trust people who are "on the other side" is an enlightening experience. Learning why certain things are done and learning about ramifications to these people if these things aren't done has been eye opening to say the least.

Nope, didn't vote for either of the two idiots running, and darn proud of it.

I know the feeling. I didn't vote for either Clinton or Dole in '96.

As far as your statement about Bangladesh is concerned, no, there is not any truth truth to it as far as it applies in the United States.

 

You seem to forget that when a job is being bid on, there are existing plans and specifications that are being bid on. In regards to a construction project, those plans and specs are created by a team of architects and/or engineers, all of whom are licensed by that governmental entity to design that specific type of work. Great pains are taken to detail the work to be completed PRIOR to the bidding process in order to make sure that the product they put out for bid is as specifically outlined as possible prior to any contractors even looking at the plans or specs. Furthermore, come bid day, the low bidder is awarded the project, but only after a review of their bid proposal to make sure that it is first and foremost, a complete bid - meaning that they haven't accidentally or intentionally overlooked any of the requirements for the project. Once construction begins, there is also an entire laid out structure of inspections and construction-review to be performed by the design team in order to ensure that the product that is delivered is in fact to the specification of the product that was ordered.

 

After all that, if anything similar to the collapses in Bangladesh were to take place on a government job in the United States, it would show, clearly, that many many more failures took place than simply a failure on the part of the "inept non-union contractor" that you have alluded to.

 

You should have looked a little more into how things work during your "30 plus years in 'the system' ". I'm surprised you didn't pick that up in your company's apprenticeship program...since apprenticeship programs are apparently the answer to every problem in the construction industry.

 

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?