I heard from several people that Ashland will going to the Wishbone this year with Coach Love taking over. Even heard that the Ashland coaching staff have attended a Wishbone Coaches Clinic.

 

1. Can Ashland succeed with the Wishbone with a new OL?

2. Will Ashland be able to succeed against Highlands and CovCath going to a more one dimensional offense?

3. For those in the know, is this true? And if so, will this be a true Triple Option Wishbone, or will this be a hybrid offense from the Wishbone formation?

I heard from several people that Ashland will going to the Wishbone this year with Coach Love taking over. Even heard that the Ashland coaching staff have attended a Wishbone Coaches Clinic.

 

1. Can Ashland succeed with the Wishbone with a new OL?

2. Will Ashland be able to succeed against Highlands and CovCath going to a more one dimensional offense?

3. For those in the know, is this true? And if so, will this be a true Triple Option Wishbone, or will this be a hybrid offense from the Wishbone formation?

 

1) Absolutely Ashland can succeed with the Wishbone. I don't know a thing about their OL, but with the Baker kid and I'm assuming a relatively good stable of other decent backs, Ashland can definitely run the wishbone and any other offense they chose to go with for that matter. Most Wishbone teams have at least 2-3 RB's that they want to get the ball too or (as I'm sure is the case with Ashland), one potentially great RB and a couple others that aren't too bad themselves.

 

Also, in regards to their OL, I know the innovative thing to say these days is to spread people out if you have an average line (be it size, skill or both), but many critics (or should I say coaches who have won a heck of a lot of games/titles in their days, but aren't considered fancy enough bc of running 'old school' offenses) will argue that the LAST thing an average offensive line needs to be is spaced out. Think about a corner who is manned up on a WR, what's the term usually coined in that situation? So and so being on an "island", right? Same concept here with the OL.....so, these people/coaches argue that average OL need to be in tighter together for help (I couldn't think of a better word or scenario, so that will have to do). I could go on and on more here, but Ill leave #1 with that.

 

2) There haven't been many succeed against the likes of Highlands (outside of T and some OH schools, but those are different animals as we all know) and Cov Cath (except Highlands for the most part) running the "Super Sonic Face Melter" offense to the Wing T. I would be willing to bet that the 'bone could be just as effective as some of these other offenses that are eye candy to spectators.

 

You can throw out of the Wishbone. As a matter of fact, talking to some coaches (successful ones at that who have ran a magnitude of schemes over their years) have said that these days, it almost seems like it's easier to throw when you are bunched in there tight. Why? A couple reasons. 1) You don't seen many old school Wishbone, Wing T, Single Wing, Double Wing, etc type offenses anymore....so, because of that, not many people know how to line up against/defend them to be honest. Secondly, and on the other side of that...you have those teams who know how to defend run heavy teams, who are packed in there tight like those in the Wishbone, so because they have as many people as possible up there tight to the L.O.S; that opens up the big play deep ball (when you have defenses with 9, 10, 11 guys within 5 yards of the ball, it's pretty easy to to slip a TE or two and a back right down the gut.....especially, when the PA pass is one that looks identical to whatever run it is set up off of). So, with all of that said, you can Pass just as effectively out of the Bone, Wing, T and any other "old school" offense out there just as you can in the 5 wide Facemelter.

 

3) I'm not sure if it's a Triple Option Wishbone team or more of a power based Wishbone team. Both win. Obviously, like any offense...the better the Jimmy's and Joe's...the better your X's and O's.

 

In closing, because I've rambled long enough, but football is football. Whether it's any of the old school offenses or the new super duper, warp speed Oregon look a likes. Fullback Trap out of the Bone or Wing T is the SAME Fullback trap out of a 2x2 spread set or QB Trap out of a 5 Wide, spread sideline to sideline formation. Same concept. The difference? One is ran out of offenses that NOBODY sees on Saturdays and Sunday's anymore and the other is ran from what's seen on Saturday's and Sunday's all day long....so, the later HAS to bee cooler/smarter, right?

 

Speaking of which (I know..I said I'll stop and I will, promise), I remember watching the '10 National Championship Game (Auburn vs. Oregon) and Kirk Herbstreit (former I/Wishbone Option QB himself) commented on Oregon; essentially saying how they are a fancier and faster (in terms of players and the amount of snaps they get off) version of an old Wishbone Triple team, just with a lot more Smoke and Mirrors. I think during that game, Oregon often times (like they are now) were in a Gun, 2 back set and were motioning a slot WR into the picture (relative backfield area) at the snap; so, what did it become? A 3 back offense...but, because they were doing it THEIR way, it looked like some wild new looking offense (which, in many ways it is as we all can attest too), but the principles were a lot of the same principles that Wishone, Flexbone, Split Back Veer Option teams were based off of long, long ago.

 

Finally, Ashland and ANY team out there can WIN with any offense.....it just (big word there for this) takes total buy in from the coaching staff and players AND PARENTS....and, of course, better Jimmies and Joes than their opponents..those help.

 

I heard a coach one time say that THE BIGGEST victory he has to get before any games are won is "WINNING the dinner table". If mommy and daddy are bashing coach so and so at home (and, if it doesn't take many of these) then kiss your season to Hell in a hand basket with a big red Ribbon tied on it.

 

Ok...done.

No, they will never compete for a state title running the wishbone. Maybe the region if their talent is strong, but not state.

Harry, I agree with much of what you said, and you said a lot, I can agree that for a line that is struggling it is better to have them in close. But, what I see as a problem with Ashland competing with the upper level of their class is not so much about how close Ashland's players are, but more about how close the opponent's players are. In other words, you done't want to play a perineal power and have nine of their players in the box, experienced line or not.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Wishbone fan and yes you can throw effective from the wishbone, and it is very adaptive. I just don't' think Ashland will be able to improve against the teams they will see in the playoffs and I think that should be their focus. Just my opinion.

Harry, I agree with much of what you said, and you said a lot, I can agree that for a line that is struggling it is better to have them in close. But, what I see as a problem with Ashland competing with the upper level of their class is not so much about how close Ashland's players are, but more about how close the opponent's players are. In other words, you done't want to play a perineal power and have nine of their players in the box, experienced line or not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Wishbone fan and yes you can throw effective from the wishbone, and it is very adaptive. I just don't' think Ashland will be able to improve against the teams they will see in the playoffs and I think that should be their focus. Just my opinion.

 

 

Fair point. That just comes down to a Jimmies and Joe's thing..the better ones will win that, obviously.

 

I'll say this though, seeing a couple home run balls out of any Double Tight, 2-3 back formation is fun to watch...and, usually, that's all it takes for those 9, 10, 11 man boxes loosen up to more 7-8 men and THEN you're rockin'.

In the grand scheme of things, it comes down to this:

 

1) Better Players, Talent

2) Coaching (HC and Assistants)

 

If you have neither, forget it. If you have one, doesn't matter which, one will only carry you so far. If you have both.....everybody else get out of the way, unless you run into somebody who matches you in both.

 

In a nutshell, that's all that really matters. Not the "5 Wide Super Shuffle Lighting Screamer" offense vs. Single Wing on offense, or the "Jack Slapper 2-8-1 Ghost Blitzer" D vs. the 4-4. Players and coaching.

Fair point. That just comes down to a Jimmies and Joe's thing..the better ones will win that, obviously.

 

I'll say this though, seeing a couple home run balls out of any Double Tight, 2-3 back formation is fun to watch...and, usually, that's all it takes for those 9, 10, 11 man boxes loosen up to more 7-8 men and THEN you're rockin'.

All fair points. My experience with the run oriented and tight formation offenses is, if you have a few decent athletes it works well, if you have a great athlete it is amazing, but it all comes down to the OL play. They don't' have to be big, but line speed and technique is key. And the backs have to have confidence in that line. I always told RB's, "be a hotdog, run between the buns", meaning the linemen had to get position and turn their blocks and make a running lanes.

 

But, I think Ashland can have success with the wishbone, any good program can. It just takes a commitment to create change.

People call our offense a "passing offense", I always tell them that our offense is a running offense, we just pitch it a little farther with those five and ten yard passes. The offensive philosophy is the same, it just looks different.

All fair points. My experience with the run oriented and tight formation offenses is, if you have a few decent athletes it works well, if you have a great athlete it is amazing, but it all comes down to the OL play. They don't' have to be big, but line speed and technique is key. And the backs have to have confidence in that line. I always told RB's, "be a hotdog, run between the buns", meaning the linemen had to get position and turn their blocks and make a running lanes.

 

But, I think Ashland can have success with the wishbone, any good program can. It just takes a commitment to create change.

 

With all do respect, I don't know of a good offense that doesn't have this, no matter what is ran (or thrown ).

 

A lot of times, offenses like this are equalizers with lesser talent bc the clock keeps running as you know.. 4 plays x 3 yards + 4 mins (if snapping the ball literally with 1 second on the play clock, then factoring in the time it takes for the refs to get the ball set) and in 12 plays or so, a quarter is over. lol

 

Many disagree with this thought, but IMO, there is a big difference bt getting beat 35-0 and 63-0. Some teams out there want to play the game like they are running in the Kentucky Derby, but they are actually fitted for Horse Pulls and with Mules at that.

People call our offense a "passing offense", I always tell them that our offense is a running offense, we just pitch it a little farther with those five and ten yard passes. The offensive philosophy is the same, it just looks different.

 

Bingo. There it is!

 

You just cracked the code my good man.

In the grand scheme of things, it comes down to this:

 

1) Better Players, Talent

2) Coaching (HC and Assistants)

 

If you have neither, forget it. If you have one, doesn't matter which, one will only carry you so far. If you have both.....everybody else get out of the way, unless you run into somebody who matches you in both.

 

In a nutshell, that's all that really matters. Not the "5 Wide Super Shuffle Lighting Screamer" offense vs. Single Wing on offense, or the "Jack Slapper 2-8-1 Ghost Blitzer" D vs. the 4-4. Players and coaching.

 

:thumb: and :lol2: (on the last comment) Ashland will do fine should they run the wishbone. One of my best friends was an assistant coach at Ashland in the early / mid 70's during Herb Conley's reign as the Tomcat coach. This guy learned the wishbone inside and out from Coach Conley, he played for him at Ashland in the mid/late 60's and later coached under him. The wishbone, when executed perfectly is next to impossible to stop. Not by me certainly, I am far from a coach, never claimed to be. That was a statement by this friend when talking about Herb Conley and how he learned the offense / philosophy and execution. 0f course, as you said one has to have the HC, good asst's, dedicated payers with the desire and talent.

Bingo. There it is!

 

You just cracked the code my good man.

Well, I am a little slow at times you know. lol

 

As for the time management, I read a coaching text once that has a quite extensive section on time management. It basically said, if you are behind on the scoreboard, you need to be in a hurry up offense and if you are ahead on the scoreboard, you need to be running clock as much as possible. No different then the McGlones and Luntzs of the world, get the lead and run the clock.

1)

 

I heard a coach one time say that THE BIGGEST victory he has to get before any games are won is "WINNING the dinner table". If mommy and daddy are bashing coach so and so at home (and, if it doesn't take many of these) then kiss your season to Hell in a hand basket with a big red Ribbon tied on it.

 

Ok...done.

 

This is HUGE. Will the parents and boosters who were saying what a great hire coach was stay with him on this? Will the kids buy in?

Think of all the excitement right now around U.K. football. Stoops is winning the dinner table. Now think what an effect negative people can have on a high school team. Coaches losing the dinner table happens all the time in high school, and the coach looks bad because of it when in reality it was the parents souring the season all along behind the scenes.

No, they will never compete for a state title running the wishbone. Maybe the region if their talent is strong, but not state.

 

 

Don't tell Coach Marsh that.

Don't tell Coach Marsh that.

Apples and hand grenades my friend.