So realistically, what is the timeline for a team to put up or shut up?? I saw Holmgren come to Green Bay and within 2 years, I knew we were gonna be bringing that Lombardi Trophy home in the near future. Holmgren had an incredible staff and a stable of QB's behind Favre. I think the magic number is four seasons. It takes about that long to build your team, your staff, your identity. If you haven't done it by then, everything gets stale, everyone loses faith/interest and/or moves on to greener pastures. I'm not doing any "research" to back up this assertion, but the Marvin Lewis ship has sailed...and sunk.

 

Except FC. :lol:

So realistically, what is the timeline for a team to put up or shut up?? I saw Holmgren come to Green Bay and within 2 years, I knew we were gonna be bringing that Lombardi Trophy home in the near future. Holmgren had an incredible staff and a stable of QB's behind Favre. I think the magic number is four seasons. It takes about that long to build your team, your staff, your identity. If you haven't done it by then, everything gets stale, everyone loses faith/interest and/or moves on to greener pastures. I'm not doing any "research" to back up this assertion, but the Marvin Lewis ship has sailed...and sunk.

4 years is a perfect time frame seeing how the avg NFL players career is right around 4 years (some reports the avg career of an NFL player is 3.5 years, Roger Goodell says it is closer to 6 years, I don't know which one is correct but we'll go with the difference and say 5 years). So The Bengals have been rebuilt 4 times over since Mike Brown took over with the same results 0 championships

 

People tend to talk about how bad the 90's were yet they also seem to think the 2000's have been better. Have the 2000's really been better than the 90's? Actually the 90's had a playoff win, the 2000's have no wins.

 

so I personally don't see much of a difference at all, the team has failed, the front office has failed and the coaches have failed.......same as the 90's.

Please give me your timeline of what you consider the right amount of time needed to turn a team around? You say they are headed in the right direction, well it's hard to go down when you are already at the lowest. They started to change in 2003 with the hiring of Marvin Lewis. It's been 10 years, how many years do you think it actually takes?

 

What are you going to do, everytime they have a bad season and losing season you automatically get to start over then when they have a winning season they are automatically headed in the right direction and then when they have a losing season again they automatically get to start over and everything in the past gets wiped out. So I'm curious with what your definition is of "Headed in the right direction" and how long that is supposed to take. Please inform me.

 

10 years, if you can't build a consistent winner in that time frame then guess what...you failed.

 

You simply are a Bengals apologists and enabler is what it sounds like to me.

 

Point blank, anything less than a super Bowl appearance is a failure. Bengals didn't make the Super Bowl again thus they failed this year.

 

You do realize that there has been no team that hasn't won a post season game in 22 years except for the Bengals right? That means every team out there has won a playoff game since the last time the Bengals have won.

 

 

Something else to chew on, the Bengals also have the longest AFC/NFC Championship game drought than any other team in the league....something I bet you also didn't know.

List of NFL franchise post-season droughts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

HellBird it would be very smart for you to realize that I do know these things about the Bengals. It would be smart for you to know that I do know my facts about the NFL as I keep showing you how the things you say are not true when you try to present facts. You tried to present facts that people thought Brees was good early on, and that was not true at all the numbers show him being not even as good as Dalton after 3 seasons, but if that was enough the Chargers drafted someone because of them not believing Brees was good. So you might want to stop trying to tell me facts that I know, when you seem to have a hard time with them yourself.

 

Now as for the timeline for the Bengals a good timeline would have been getting better shortly after their last playoff win over twenty years ago. A good time line would have been to get better after Dave was fired, a good time line would have been after Bruce was fired, Lebeau, etc. Obviously that didn't happen and yes it HAS BEEN WAY TO LONG for them to turn things around. They were EASILY the worst ran franchise in football and probably all of sports for years that fact is lost upon me. They should have been able to build on from the 2005 season and failed and went right back down again. They have been consistently bad for mostly 20 years. So yes even though they have not won a playoff game, the fact that they now are starting to at least be a consistent playoff contender with the players they now have is finally a positive thing. Is that enough? NO NOT AT ALL. Is there a good chance that they will do something stupid and ruin the progress they have made, yes there is a good chance that can happen. However if your going to believe it will never happen, then what is even the point of even being a fan? Just because I believe there is reason to be excited to finally see them actually being more consistent at being a playoff team, does not mean that is enough for me. That does not mean I forgot about all the bad years and what that was like. Trust me I remember very well and don't want to get back to that, so yes I will be excited that right now they have not gone back to that and hope they suprise people and make more good moves to help now get them over the top and start making a run in the playoffs.

HellBird it would be very smart for you to realize that I do know these things about the Bengals. It would be smart for you to know that I do know my facts about the NFL as I keep showing you how the things you say are not true when you try to present facts. You tried to present facts that people thought Brees was good early on, and that was not true at all the numbers show him being not even as good as Dalton after 3 seasons, but if that was enough the Chargers drafted someone because of them not believing Brees was good. So you might want to stop trying to tell me facts that I know, when you seem to have a hard time with them yourself.

 

Now as for the timeline for the Bengals a good timeline would have been getting better shortly after their last playoff win over twenty years ago. A good time line would have been to get better after Dave was fired, a good time line would have been after Bruce was fired, Lebeau, etc. Obviously that didn't happen and yes it HAS BEEN WAY TO LONG for them to turn things around. They were EASILY the worst ran franchise in football and probably all of sports for years that fact is lost upon me. They should have been able to build on from the 2005 season and failed and went right back down again. They have been consistently bad for mostly 20 years. So yes even though they have not won a playoff game, the fact that they now are starting to at least be a consistent playoff contender with the players they now have is finally a positive thing. Is that enough? NO NOT AT ALL. Is there a good chance that they will do something stupid and ruin the progress they have made, yes there is a good chance that can happen. However if your going to believe it will never happen, then what is even the point of even being a fan? Just because I believe there is reason to be excited to finally see them actually being more consistent at being a playoff team, does not mean that is enough for me. That does not mean I forgot about all the bad years and what that was like. Trust me I remember very well and don't want to get back to that, so yes I will be excited that right now they have not gone back to that and hope they suprise people and make more good moves to help now get them over the top and start making a run in the playoffs.

Let's see, you say my facts are wrong. 1. Bengals have the longest playoff win drought in the entire league, show me where that fact is wrong. MArvin Lewis is the only coach in NFL history to be with the same team while going 0-4 in the playoffs....fact. Marvin Lewis is the only coach who has a losing record after 10 years with the same team and keep his job. So please show me where those facts are incorrect.

 

Now your fascination with Brees is beginning to become a bit creepy, do you stalk him? You say everyone said Brees was a horrible QB after his first 2 years, well it seems to me YOU are the only one who says that, another one of your so called facts that are proven wrong.

 

The Chragers didn't get rid of Brees because they thought he was horrible, they drafted Rivers and Brees had an injury, yet I see Brees has a SB MVP under his belt as well as a SB victory, so it looks like you were the one wrong about Brees.

Let's see, you say my facts are wrong. 1. Bengals have the longest playoff win drought in the entire league, show me where that fact is wrong. MArvin Lewis is the only coach in NFL history to be with the same team while going 0-4 in the playoffs....fact. Marvin Lewis is the only coach who has a losing record after 10 years with the same team and keep his job. So please show me where those facts are incorrect.

 

Now your fascination with Brees is beginning to become a bit creepy, do you stalk him? You say everyone said Brees was a horrible QB after his first 2 years, well it seems to me YOU are the only one who says that, another one of your so called facts that are proven wrong.

 

The Chragers didn't get rid of Brees because they thought he was horrible, they drafted Rivers and Brees had an injury, yet I see Brees has a SB MVP under his belt as well as a SB victory, so it looks like you were the one wrong about Brees.

 

There you go once again with your making things up. Where did I say you were wrong on the facts you said about the Bengals? I clearly have stated many times what facts you have presented that have been wrong. However as usual with you, you want to try to make things up that are not said, I guess maybe because you don't really have anything good to support what your saying? So you need to make things up? Never said the things you mentioned about the Bengals were wrong, but nice try on that. Then you go on and act like I said that I thought Brees would never be good and since he won a Super Bowl that shows I was wrong? Once again please show me where I said I thought he would never turn out good, like you all have said about Dalton? Please show me this? I always show you where you are wrong, so please show me this for me? I show you what you said and how it was wrong. Show me where I have said these things? Good luck on that considering I have even talked about how Brees went from not being that good, to being an elite QB. I just said people did not view him as being good back then, and I have things to show I was in the majority not the minority in that thinking. Once again I would love if you ask Charger fans what they truly felt about him at that time back then before his 4th season. The man couldn't even keep him job from Doug Flutie even in his third season in the NFL.

 

So once again please go show me where it was a known fact like you make it out to be that most people thought Brees was good even after his first 3 seasons in the NFL? I have a feeling you will have a hard time finding that. The only thing you may find is people now saying the Chargers should have kept Brees now that its after the fact and they seen how things played out. However after this 3rd year in the NFL people did not view him as this good up and coming QB like you try to claim. I took the liberty go find some stuff for you on what people thought of Brees back then and I will put that in the next post.

Man these things definitely show I was the only one thinking this about Brees. Shoot even Wikipedia seems to agree with you that Brees was a good up and coming QB but they just randomly decided to draft Rivers anyways haha. Shoot he had a hard time even holding off the old Doug Flutie, even though Brees was in his 3rd season. Brees was at best average and not up and coming through 3 seasons in the NFL, and you seem to be the only one who thought he was already good and up and coming. Once again nice try.

 

This first one is from a person who was comparing Russell Wilson to Brees and they talked about Brees during his early years.

 

In some ways Russ has been better, in some ways Brees has been better. In some ways Russ has been better than Drew Brees! Here's what Wilson doesn't want to do though: Be similar to Drew Brees in their next eight games.

 

The Chargers lost seven of their last nine games in 2002, and Brees was awful for a stretch of six games that saw him throw 2 TD and 7 INT for 6 yards per attempt. It's a reminder that you can be almost exactly as promising as Russell Wilson is right now, then also go into the tank. It's easy to forget that Drew Brees is a Hall of Fame quarterback and was also awful for an early stretch of his career to the point of San Diego drafting his successor only three years after drafting him.

 

Russell Wilson's comparison to Drew Brees and other quarterbacks - Field Gulls

 

This one is just telling up about Brees's life and career.

 

Early career

Brees played in his first professional game on November 4, 2001 against the Kansas City Chiefs. He won the starting job over Doug Flutie during training camp before the start of the 2002 season. Brees started all 16 games for the Chargers during the 2002 season, leading the team to an 8-8 record. After a disappointing start to the 2003 season he was replaced by Flutie. Brees' career with the Chargers was in jeopardy after San Diego acquired NC State's Philip Rivers. After the trade, it was almost certain Brees' days as the Chargers' starting QB were over. However, Rivers held out nearly all of training camp,and Brees remained the starter throughout the 2004 season, where he started 15 games and led the team to a 12-4 regular season record. The Chargers won the AFC West and Brees was selected to the 2004 NFL Pro Bowl. He was named 2004 NFL Comeback Player of the Year.[16]

 

Drew Brees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

More opinions on Brees and his play early in his career.

 

Why did the Chargers draft Philip Rivers while they had Drew Brees on their roster? - Yahoo! Answers

 

I don't know about you but it seems like most people were suggesting that after 3 seasons Brees had been less than impressive? But that can't be true because you say otherwise since its easy to say that after the fact. Even the the opinion of him back then was not that after 3 seasons.

FC we get it, Brees struggled early. Dalton has struggled early so Dalton could be Brees. My guess is you are way wrong. If you come back with I don't think he will be that good why 1 thousand posts about Brees? Dalton will never be as good as Brees more than likely so can we please move on to someone he may be as good as?

FC we get it, Brees struggled early. Dalton has struggled early so Dalton could be Brees. My guess is you are way wrong. If you come back with I don't think he will be that good why 1 thousand posts about Brees? Dalton will never be as good as Brees more than likely so can we please move on to someone he may be as good as?

 

For the hundredth time I never said he will be as good. However it is a very valid comparison because I have talked about how if Brees could look so average and not wanted after 3 seasons in the NFL, and then end up not becoming just a good QB but a great QB and possible hall of famer. Then its not crazy to think that it is a possibility that Dalton can at least turn into more than just a game manager and then one day possibly a top 10 QB. It has never been about that Dalton will be as great as Brees. I agree its basically impossible to say someone will be as great as someone else or as bad. However Brees who was a lot like Dalton and actually not as good as Dalton after 3 seasons, if he can become great and elite. Then no reason to think its impossible for Dalton to become a good QB based on just two seasons you always talking about his arm. Year 3 will honestly give us a great idea most likely on where Dalton's career is going and it could be as just average or maybe he will make that improvement.

 

If you really want we can compare Dalton's #'s to other top QB's after their first two years, and he is right there with them too. Now I haven't done that because Brees is the best comparison. Slid down in the draft because of his size and arm, looked no better than average after his first few seasons, etc. Thus the comparison.

If you don't think he will be as good as Brees quit talking about him. We get that Brees got way better after his first two years. Everyone knows that. Everyone

If you don't think he will be as good as Brees quit talking about him. We get that Brees got way better after his first two years. Everyone knows that. Everyone

 

Not Everyone apparently Hellbird thought everyone considered Brees good early in his career too, and tried to make it out like I was the only one who thought he wasn't good after his first few years. Which clearly I was not the only one, and the majority of people felt the same about Brees after his first few years including his own team. And I will keep talking about Brees since you keep acting like its impossible for Dalton to be more than a game manager, and so that is why I use Brees because he had all the same problems early in his career. So if he can become elite Dalton can at least become good hopefully we shall see. Now I will be more than glad to stop this discussion and wait and see how year 3 plays out for Dalton.

Not Everyone apparently Hellbird thought everyone considered Brees good early in his career too, and tried to make it out like I was the only one who thought he wasn't good after his first few years. Which clearly I was not the only one, and the majority of people felt the same about Brees after his first few years including his own team. And I will keep talking about Brees since you keep acting like its impossible for Dalton to be more than a game manager, and so that is why I use Brees because he had all the same problems early in his career. So if he can become elite Dalton can at least become good hopefully we shall see. Now I will be more than glad to stop this discussion and wait and see how year 3 plays out for Dalton.

Yet you are the one who continues to keep bringing up Brees and comparing him to Dalton. Dalton is no Brees, the sooner you realize that the better you will be when it comes time for you to admit Dalton isn't that good.

Yet you are the one who continues to keep bringing up Brees and comparing him to Dalton. Dalton is no Brees, the sooner you realize that the better you will be when it comes time for you to admit Dalton isn't that good.

 

Good luck. I think he just this year admitted Carson Palmer isn't a hall of famer.:lol:

Good luck. I think he just this year admitted Carson Palmer isn't a hall of famer.:lol:

 

The curse that attached to Carson when he was a Bengal lives on. The perpetually injured Dre Kirkpatrick (selection used with the 1st round pick from Oakland) went in for knee surgery yesterday.

 

Would not want to be the player the Bengals select in June with the 2nd round pick from Oakland.

The curse that attached to Carson when he was a Bengal lives on. The perpetually injured Dre Kirkpatrick (selection used with the 1st round pick from Oakland) went in for knee surgery yesterday.

 

Would not want to be the player the Bengals select in June with the 2nd round pick from Oakland.

The curse has been around for awhile.

 

Let's look back at just the top 2 draft picks the Bengals have had since Marvin has been here (so this isn't even including Kijana Carter)

these players were either 1 of 3, 1. Bust, 2. Injury prone or 3. Good player the Bengals let go before their time.

 

2003 2nd round. Eric Steinbach, one of the best linemen the team has drafted in a while and was let go after only 3 seasons.

2004 1st round Cris Perry injury prone, only had 1 season where he contributed and that was 2005 season.

2004 2nd round pick Keiwan Ratliff BUST

2005 1st round David Pollack career ending injury 2nd game of 2nd year

2005 Odell Thurman stupid off field and out of NFL a year later

2006 Jonathan Joseph Best CB the team has and they let him go after his first contract was up.

2007 Kenny Irons 2nd round hurt preseason and never played a down in the NFL

2008 1st round Keith Rivers BUST

2008 2nd Round Jerome Simpson BUST

 

I won't go into 20098 etc. because some would say it's too early to tell, but Andre Smith was #1 pick in 2009 and some would say he has been a huge disappointment for where he was drafted, injury prone his first couple years and never started truly playing until last year.

 

The Bengals have been cursed with their first couple picks for awhile now.

Yet you are the one who continues to keep bringing up Brees and comparing him to Dalton. Dalton is no Brees, the sooner you realize that the better you will be when it comes time for you to admit Dalton isn't that good.

 

Wait a minute I thought everyone knew besides me that Brees wasn't known as a good QB early in his career? Funny how you don't respond to that, once I shown you that you were one of the very few people who actually thought Brees was a good QB after his first 3 seasons.

 

There you go once again making up things too. Did I ever say that yes Dalton is a very good QB? Nope nice try, I even said that next year is a big year for him because we will have a good idea how his career will be after next year. I even admitted that SSC may just be right and he might not ever be more than average, I never said that Dalton definitely will be good. But once again nice try. All I have said is its wrong to act like we know for sure that Dalton will not be anything more than to average. Which is the reason for the Brees comparison who is very similar to Dalton in size, arm strength, reasoning why he fell in the draft, etc. Actually Dalton after 2 seasons had shown to be better than Brees was after 3 seasons. Now Brees did finally put it all together and ended up being great. Not saying Dalton will do that, but if Brees can do that after being no more than average after 3 seasons, then its to early to say that we know Dalton can't be more than average just after two seasons which he even had better better than most qb's in history after 2 seasons. However this discussion has gone on way to long, because you like to keep saying things that simply have not been said. However that is what you do apparently, so maybe I just need to do a better job at ignoring you made up things to this won't continue.