June 29, 201214 yr Author They walked out b/c the members that are voting for this are stupid and haven't given Obama any legitimacy since he was elected. EVERYBODY knows this is a ruse, even you know its a ruse. What I know is the committee asked for the info that would help find out how officer Terry was killed and who was responsible and the Attoney General lied to them under oath and got his friend President Obama to use an executive privilege to protect what? What are they so afraid of? It has nothing to do with black/white, only the black caucus is making it a racist thing and shame on them for dividing America more than what it is already.
June 29, 201214 yr Why does Obama need an executive order to protect him from something he has said he has no knowledge of? Either he knows nothing about it and doesn't need the executive order or he does know about it and needs the executive order. Which is it?
June 29, 201214 yr Why does Obama need an executive order to protect him from something he has said he has no knowledge of? Either he knows nothing about it and doesn't need the executive order or he does know about it and needs the executive order. Which is it? Is it possible that with what he now knows in hindsight contains sensitive information, thus the need for the executive order?
June 29, 201214 yr Was just watching MSNBC a minute ago. They're blaming the whole Fast and Furious debacle on the NRA. :lol:
June 29, 201214 yr Was just watching MSNBC a minute ago. They're blaming the whole Fast and Furious debacle on the NRA. :lol: There are some (Fortune article writer) that say the relatively lax gun laws in AZ contributed to the ATF's challenge of following the guns.
June 29, 201214 yr Was just watching MSNBC a minute ago. They're blaming the whole Fast and Furious debacle on the NRA. :lol: Any port in a storm....Wide Receiver port, NRA port,... Given the veracity the MSM and especially CNN/Fortune and MSNBC is going to deflect this is there may be more to it than just Holder and DOJ. Obama? Maybe. But the name that has not gotten any mud on it yet is Hillary Clinton. The Secretary of State (and potential candidate in 2016) was not in loop as criminals and arms were basically given government protection and escorted to the Mexican border and let loose in Mexico. Given the potential international crisis this could have caused it is hard to believe that State was not at least 'in the loop'. Its clear that many want this to just go away. Not unlike a certain event in 1974.
June 29, 201214 yr Any port in a storm....Wide Receiver port, NRA port,... Given the veracity the MSM and especially CNN/Fortune and MSNBC is going to deflect this . I'm still confused as to how pointing out that there may be more to the story is deflecting. What if what Fortune claims is 100% true?
June 29, 201214 yr I'm still confused as to how pointing out that there may be more to the story is deflecting. What if what Fortune claims is 100% true? So a freelance 'investigative reporter' has more details than anyone else - including Congress at this point? She is refusing interviews. What a journalist. This has been typical practice since 2009 - hit and run pieces and the author fades away but the article is pumped into forums and blogs all over. This appears to be the case here. Katherine Eban - FishbowlDC Other than the part about the CBS News report, there’s not much about media. Eban’s story says Fast and Furious was picked up “first by right-wing bloggers, then by CBS” before becoming “a fixture on Fox News and the subject of numerous reports in media outlets from CNN to the New York Times.” So, we took the bait and arranged through the publicist to have Eban answer questions about what role the news media had in driving the F&F story. ... Two hours later, the publicist called to tell us our questions were already addressed in the story and Eban wouldn’t be doing the interview. So this was all Dave Voth's fault and he got ratted out. If it were that easy he would have been sacrificed quickly and this would be over. So lets see what Ms. Eban says in more detail here.... But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn. So we have 5 (unnamed sources who are 'law-enforcement agents' (note - it does NOT say they are ATF) vs. one sole (apparently rogue) agent - Dodson. Or is it more? ATF knew risks in border operation - Washington Times Mr. Grassley said ATF agents also had expressed to him their concerns that the agency, as part of “Project Gunrunner,” had allowed guns to “walk” across the border despite warnings that someone could get killed. One agent who has claimed whistle-blower status is George Gillett Jr., assistant special agent in charge of the ATF’s Phoenix field office. He oversaw the Gunrunner operation and its “Fast and Furious” component, a sting that funneled more than 1,700 smuggled weapons from Arizona to Mexico. He has not been available for comment. So did Ms. Eblan talk to Gillett? Apparently not. He is not mentioned in the article at all. What was Gillett's role? George Gillett: Key leader in ATF's Gunrunner operation talking to investigators - Los Angeles Times Agents say Gillett provided much of the day-to-day oversight of the Gunrunner operation. ... Gillett could not be reached for comment. His lawyer, Peter Noone, said he could not discuss the case. In response to questions, he confirmed that Gillett had received death threats before making the decision to cooperate. So the guy that had day to day oversight is not part the "investigative" story? The fact that he received death threats is not relevant or mentioned in the MSM? What about another higher level key player - Kenneth Melson? ATF Director Testifies on Operation Targeting Gun Smugglers - House Committee on Oversight & Government Reform Contrary to denials by the Justice Department, Acting Director Melson acknowledged the agents had in fact witnessed transfers of weapons from straw purchasers to third parties without following the guns any further. The ATF group executing Operation Fast and Furious had been placed under the direction of the Arizona U.S. Attorney’s office. Ms. Eblan focuses on Melson's "betrayal" of Voth. She notes Voth is 'steeped in military loyalty' - as if miliary promotes personal loyalty (apparently silence) over legal laws. As Issa's spokesperson has said - this article is 'fantasy'. Its author is an unknown free-lancer who is refusing interviews about her work. It was pumpped over and over again in forums and blogs as an alternate truth. I could be wrong - but this looks like a hit and run deflection piece.
June 29, 201214 yr So a freelance 'investigative reporter' has more details than anyone else - including Congress at this point? She is refusing interviews. What a journalist. This has been typical practice since 2009 - hit and run pieces and the author fades away but the article is pumped into forums and blogs all over. This appears to be the case here. Katherine Eban - FishbowlDC So this was all Dave Voth's fault and he got ratted out. If it were that easy he would have been sacrificed quickly and this would be over. So lets see what Ms. Eban says in more detail here.... So we have 5 (unnamed sources who are 'law-enforcement agents' (note - it does NOT say they are ATF) vs. one sole (apparently rogue) agent - Dodson. Or is it more? ATF knew risks in border operation - Washington Times So did Ms. Eblan talk to Gillett? Apparently not. He is not mentioned in the article at all. What was Gillett's role? George Gillett: Key leader in ATF's Gunrunner operation talking to investigators - Los Angeles Times So the guy that had day to day oversight is not part the "investigative" story? The fact that he received death threats is not relevant or mentioned in the MSM? What about another higher level key player - Kenneth Melson? ATF Director Testifies on Operation Targeting Gun Smugglers - House Committee on Oversight & Government Reform Ms. Eblan focuses on Melson's "betrayal" of Voth. She notes Voth is 'steeped in military loyalty' - as if miliary promotes personal loyalty (apparently silence) over legal laws. As Issa's spokesperson has said - this article is 'fantasy'. Its author is an unknown free-lancer who is refusing interviews about her work. It was pumpped over and over again in forums and blogs as an alternate truth. I could be wrong - but this looks like a hit and run deflection piece. Here's what I'm still looking for and haven't found yet (including in what you linked): Did the ATF PUT guns into the hands of the illegals/strawmen? If that didn't happen then I'm not sure what the issue is other than the potential for lying somewhere up the food chain. None of what you linked , unless I missed it, tells me that happened.
June 29, 201214 yr Was just watching MSNBC a minute ago. They're blaming the whole Fast and Furious debacle on the NRA. :lol::lol: What? They bypassed the whole "it's Bush's fault" and decided to go with this idiotic approach? There are some (Fortune article writer) that say the relatively lax gun laws in AZ contributed to the ATF's challenge of following the guns.There are more that say the horrible handling of a horrible operation contributed to it. I've read the Fortune article, I'm not buying it.
June 29, 201214 yr :lol: What? They bypassed the whole "it's Bush's fault" and decided to go with this idiotic approach? There are more that say the horrible handling of a horrible operation contributed to it. I've read the Fortune article, I'm not buying it. The laws are the laws. AZ is simply more lax than many which obviously is a factor. Can that even be disputed? The report said that a guy on food stamps shows up and buys $300k worth of guys over a period of time and then transfers them yet ATF can't do anything. Do you dispute that they can't do anything? Based on what you know how could the ATF have handled it better? What could they have done to prevent the Border Patrol agent from being shot with a gun bought in AZ? You may be right but I still haven't seen the "smoking gun" to prove that the ATF failed miserably. I'm asking for you to back up your belief.
June 29, 201214 yr Here's what I'm still looking for and haven't found yet (including in what you linked): Did the ATF PUT guns into the hands of the illegals/strawmen? If that didn't happen then I'm not sure what the issue is other than the potential for lying somewhere up the food chain. None of what you linked , unless I missed it, tells me that happened. According to Mr. Grassley, ATF supervisor David Voth told the Arizona gun dealer in an April 2010 email he understood his concerns considering the “frequency with which some individuals under investigation by our office have been purchasing firearms from your business.” But he said ATF was “continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of investigative techniques which I cannot go into [in] detail.” Following that email, he said the ATF arranged a May 2010 meeting between the dealer and the U.S. attorney's office, during which Mr. Grassley said prosecutors “assured the gun dealer in even stronger terms that there were safeguards in place to prevent further distribution of the weapons after being purchased from his business.” “As we now know, those assurances proved to be untrue,” Mr. Grassley said in the letter. The legitimate gun dealers knew what was going on. They had ATF in the backroom monitoring the same person purchase over and over again. A good response to this fantasy: PrairiePundit: Defending Fast and Furious is a fools errrand Gun dealers repeatedly raised concerns about ATF telling them to allow straw purchasers using false ID and loads of cash to buy weapons. In 2010, a gun dealer emailed Voth because a straw purchaser had placed a large order and the dealer wanted to know if he should order more stock. Once again, so he could comply with ATF's order to sell. Voth told him, go right ahead. Order the guns, sell to the bad guys. The guns sold during Fast and Furious didn't "eventually fall into criminal hands," they were put there intentionally as soon as ATF approved the sale of those guns to guys they knew were straw purchasers before they even walked through the door of the gun dealerships. Not to mention, weapons were never seized until they were found at violent crime scenes; 1400 remain missing. And of course, according to Fortune, this whole Fast and Furious scandal has been drummed up by...right wing bloggers! The 'pushback' on the article is itself news - in some places.... Fast and Furious: Oversight pushes back on Fortune report - POLITICO.com Fortune Fast and Furious Report Doesn't Change Much - Riehl World View Fortune Magazine Tries to Tell The "Truth" About Fast and Furious, Fails Miserably - Katie Pavlich Examples of article being 'pumped' in blogs and forums: Shocking new revelations about a Darrell Issa conspiracy - Jimmy Zuma - Open Salon FORTUNE Magazine Questions GOP Fast and Furious Narrative | Resurgence | Big Think Fortune reporter: ‘Fast and Furious’ the fault of weak laws pushed by gun lobby | The Raw Story Daily Kos: Fortune: Much of what you think you know about 'Fast and Furious' may not be the case at all Always love the daily KOS...at least they are honest about their partisanship. Unlike the next entry.... The ulimate pump and Alinsky move by who else...Media Matters.... Will Fox Report On Fortune Bombshell That Fast And Furious Didn't Involve Gunwalking? | Media Matters for America Here is a good one: Little Green Footballs - Must Read: Fortune Magazine Totally Destroys the 'Fast and Furious' Fake Outrage [h=2]Must Read: Fortune Magazine Totally Destroys the ‘Fast and Furious’ Fake Outrage[/h]
June 29, 201214 yr I have said the MSM jumping to the defense with such vigor is interesting. I have also said I think it less to protect Holder but someone else. Someone who will run for the top spot in 2016. Below is a video that seems to bear out that 'the plan' of F&F was well, well known - in March of 2009. Let me repeat that date - MARCH 2009. Only 2 months after the administration took office. Go to the 4:00 minute mark of this video. This really is a 'must see': Broader story where I found this video: American Power: Debunking Rachel Maddow's Lies About 'Fast and Furious': MSNBC Hack Falsely Claims Scandal Just Like Shirley Sherrod 'Conspiracy' So who is involved with F&F - probably all the key players at Justice and State and WH - maybe... Is this a political witch hunt? Actually I think it might be....but Holder is not the only or necessarily primary target. Get Holder (minor win), dirty up the entire administration and Obama for November (medium win), take out the leading nominee candidate for 2016 (a bonus win).
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