An overwhelming vote does not necessarily mean that any proposal is prudent or good for the whole. The BOC obviously thinks that the proposal is not in the best interest of Kentucky High School Athletics. I am sure they are hoping for reasonable compromises that can be adopted to somewhat satisfy both sides.

 

If you took a popular vote to eliminate federal income tax in the country how do you think that vote would turnout? Would it be the right decision simply because of the vote?

 

Keep in mind that more public schools voted against prop 20 than private schools voted for it.

Am I hearing what I am reading? That the elected members of a board know better than the people who put them in? Do you people understand the term "Representative Assembly" ? This reminds us of the poll taken of Democrats before the last presidential election on whether they agreed on the national party platform. 92% of Democrats across the country did not agree withe national party platform, yet the "know-better" leaders continue to push that agenda because it is their beliefs. How long did vanilla coke stay on the market? Obviously someone at Coca Cola felt it was good and right, but the majority of the public said "you are wrong" and refused to buy. The schools are not "children" to have "adult" decisions made for them. You will get nowhere with that.

So, in other words, you think that prop 20 should be put into practice because the majority of the schools voted in favor of it? No further consideration is necessary because it is what the majority wants?

Am I hearing what I am reading? That the elected members of a board know better than the people who put them in? Do you people understand the term "Representative Assembly" ? This reminds us of the poll taken of Democrats before the last presidential election on whether they agreed on the national party platform. 92% of Democrats across the country did not agree withe national party platform, yet the "know-better" leaders continue to push that agenda because it is their beliefs. How long did vanilla coke stay on the market? Obviously someone at Coca Cola felt it was good and right, but the majority of the public said "you are wrong" and refused to buy. The schools are not "children" to have "adult" decisions made for them. You will get nowhere with that.

Just because the majority want it, does not make it best for the majority. That is why their are leaders put in place to make such decisions. That is why the President has VETO power in our federal goverment, thats why their our checks and balances in every governing board I can think of, this is not something new.

As you so astutely point out big stud, that if the president does veto something passed by the house and senate, only a 2/3 majority is required to pass it, inspite of a presidential veto.

Am I hearing what I am reading? That the elected members of a board know better than the people who put them in? Do you people understand the term "Representative Assembly" ? This reminds us of the poll taken of Democrats before the last presidential election on whether they agreed on the national party platform. 92% of Democrats across the country did not agree withe national party platform, yet the "know-better" leaders continue to push that agenda because it is their beliefs. How long did vanilla coke stay on the market? Obviously someone at Coca Cola felt it was good and right, but the majority of the public said "you are wrong" and refused to buy. The schools are not "children" to have "adult" decisions made for them. You will get nowhere with that.

 

 

OldTimer, you are hearing what you are reading correctly. Yes most of the 18 BOC members are elected by the schools. 4 are appointed by the State Board of Education. Regardless, the KHSAA constitution places a fiduciary responsibility on the BOC to only recommend approval of Proposal 20 if they believe it is in the best interest of the association. The mere fact that a 2/3rds majority of the delegates was in favor of it, does not necessarily mean it is best for the association. It may what was best for those delegates,but that does not mean it is best for the association as a whole. Furthermore if your response is that whatever 2/3rds of the delegates want is what is best for the association, there would be no reason for the BOC to be forced to take any recommendation/no recommendation action now would there? The Constitution provision placing that fiduciary duty on the BOC would be meaningless under your way of thinking. If that's what the delegates want however, they should attempt to amend the Constitution to eliminate that BOC review (although I doubt the State Board of Education, which would have final say on the amendment, would agree with the amendment).

LN is right the State BOE will have the final say, and that is open to the State Legislature. In its current form the proposal IMHO will never make it past either.

Wasn't it only a few years ago that the private schools were lobbying hard and I believe the delegate assembly voted on a special 1 or 2 representatives on the BOC especially just for the private schools. I believe the complaints were their reps were not getting voted on the BOC because they were in the minority and felt they needed special treatment to get representation on the BOC.

I believe at the time the private schools had no representation. Is that your idea of fair. Years before special seats were created for minorities to ensure their representation in a group that previously gave them none. Private schools appealed for the same. Even now it can hardly be considered "special treatment" when the private schools have representation that is much lower than the percentage of schools in the KHSAA that are private.

As far as the BOC being able to thwart the KHSAA board members in this issue, it is no different than the Supreme Court holding Congress accountable.

I believe at the time the private schools had no representation. Is that your idea of fair. Years before special seats were created for minorities to ensure their representation in a group that previously gave them none. Private schools appealed for the same. Even now it can hardly be considered "special treatment" when the private schools have representation that is much lower than the percentage of schools in the KHSAA that are private.

As far as the BOC being able to thwart the KHSAA board members in this issue, it is no different than the Supreme Court holding Congress accountable.

I just found it ironic that they felt they were not being voted in because their was "an unlevel advantage" to the public schools. They lobbied and I believe received 2 seats. (I could be wrong here except I know there are 18 seats on the Board and 16 BBall regions and 2 private school seats would make 18.)

 

The privates asked for special consideration instead of "working harder" to convince their region to vote them in.

 

Just found it ironic.

 

Also, your last paragraph, I think you ment KHSAA delegates. The BOC and the KHSAA board members are the same entity.

I just found it ironic that they felt they were not being voted in because their was "an unlevel advantage" to the public schools. They lobbied and I believe received 2 seats. (I could be wrong here except I know there are 18 seats on the Board and 16 BBall regions and 2 private school seats would make 18.)

 

The privates asked for special consideration instead of "working harder" to convince their region to vote them in.

 

Just found it ironic.

 

Also, your last paragraph, I think you ment KHSAA delegates. The BOC and the KHSAA board members are the same entity.

LBBC, You seem to take great offense at some of the "just work harder" comments and I'm not sure that I blame you. Let me tell you what I mean by working harder. The community starts high quality youth leagues. The community puts emphasis on sports participation by all kids. The community works to provide facilities for the kids. The community works hard to provide good facilities for the high schools. The school works hard to find the kids that are not participating and get them involved in something - some of them will choose sports. The voters of the area tax themselves enough to pay for great schools AND great sports programs. Most of these things are beyond the ability of an individual coach to provide. They are a community responsibility, but I can't see why our kids should be punished because we choose to provide all of those things for our kids.

LBBC, You seem to take great offense at some of the "just work harder" comments and I'm not sure that I blame you. Let me tell you what I mean by working harder. The community starts high quality youth leagues. The community puts emphasis on sports participation by all kids. The community works to provide facilities for the kids. The community works hard to provide good facilities for the high schools. The school works hard to find the kids that are not participating and get them involved in something - some of them will choose sports. The voters of the area tax themselves enough to pay for great schools AND great sports programs. Most of these things are beyond the ability of an individual coach to provide. They are a community responsibility, but I can't see why our kids should be punished because we choose to provide all of those things for our kids.

I can agree 100% with this post.

 

I look at the split as saying that we compete on 2 different levels. As does St. X and Deming.

I can agree 100% with this post.

 

I look at the split as saying that we compete on 2 different levels. As does St. X and Deming.

The problem is that there are also public schools that make that type of effort, so why kick out just the private schools? There are also private schools that put little effort into sports. Why not kick Woodford County, Union County and Campbell County out of wrestling? They are very dominant in that sport. Isn't that proof of some advantage? And make no mistake about it, Prop 20 kicks the private schools out of championship play. Football is the most extreme example. Class 3A and 4A would consist of two teams each. Since the state takes the revenue from the championship, Trinity this past season would have lost out on four games and $80,000 to $100,000 in revenue. There is no way that that can be seen as an equitable situation.

The problem is that there are also public schools that make that type of effort, so why kick out just the private schools? There are also private schools that put little effort into sports. Why not kick Woodford County, Union County and Campbell County out of wrestling? They are very dominant in that sport. Isn't that proof of some advantage? And make no mistake about it, Prop 20 kicks the private schools out of championship play. Football is the most extreme example. Class 3A and 4A would consist of two teams each. Since the state takes the revenue from the championship, Trinity this past season would have lost out on four games and $80,000 to $100,000 in revenue. There is no way that that can be seen as an equitable situation.

I would agree that the problem is not limited to public and private. In one of these threads, I made the statement that I don't know if public/private is the answer.

 

I wonder if you cannot create classifications based on certain criteria and schools choose which criteria they are going to choose to compete under. Like the NCAA does.

 

Size, open enrollment, financial aid, defined feeder system limits are all things that could be considered.

I feel better that my comments created a "stop,look,and comment" . We really agree on this, you just did not know it. [ just for the sake of it, that is why the presidential veto can be overidden by a 2/3 majority vote of congress ] But you hit my point, that it does not end there with the majority vote to create that action; rather that "end" should be the beginning of meaningful and respectful dialogue between all parties. With both sides starting off sincere in their determination to arrive at a solution and being respectful of the feelings and desires of each other, this can be solved.