Originally posted by El Nino

All this griping about public schools not having enough money to do anything is the very reason a boycott won't happen at the Varsity level. If you're the AD at Seneca and you have the chance to play Trinity at your home stadium, common business sense says you jump at the chance. You will collect the majority profit of over 4000 sold tickets, increased concessions, and your cheer squad, band, dance team or whatever could raise more money selling doughnuts or whatever to a much larger captive audience.

 

In Football Trinity is not our schools biggest "money" game. It was Male. They have been added to the schedule again and another team was dropped. Trinity will remain because they are a district foe. There are several schools that can duplicate the revenue for these schools. And once again we keep talking about football. What is it going to cost to send all the JV and frosh teams all over the State to play? If you have to "play the best to be the best" as i keep hearing here. What happens to the Basketball, Baseball, Wrestling, Softball and Soccer teams from these schools? How are these coaches going to feel if they have to schedule miles from home. I have a small budget for my team, i have to raise my own money to make ends meet and be able to travel out of town. Busses cost me $300 dollars on the average. (we cant have a private bus or transport kids in vans) Who wants to travel 50 to 60 miles one way during the week with young kids.

If you look past football it could get to be a scheduling nightmare for some schools. You also have to look past X and Trinity. KCD, Collegiate, Sacred Heart,Mercy, St.Francis, Beth Haven and Christian Acd. are all private schools. Im sure "some peoples" opinion is every man for himself. Thats why we have this problem now. Id like to hear the opinions of other private and public school "coaches" about this action. Its not being called a boycott. Just schedule system schools first.

El Nino, as I stated in an earlier post a district game boycott CAN happen as was the case with Dunbar in Lexington. Up until this past season they forfieted 2 games each season against Lex. Catholic until the KHSAA moved them to a new district. The odds are that Trinity would win their district anyway so it would just be one loss to each team in the district. I hope that the schools in Jefferson Co. don't take up this mentallity also.

Originally posted by ram95

On the point of Catholic Schools giving public schools a bunch of star atheletes list them. You can't, show some numbers or examples.

 

Gerry and Andy Ahrens

Originally posted by Sports Fanatic

Gerry and Andy Ahrens

 

Both players ended up being star quarterbacks. Would either player have done as well as they did if they had gone to X or T (who were both running stale, run-oriented offenses at the time these kids made their high school choices)? I think not.

 

Why you think they left the Catholic school system?

Originally posted by Oxnard

Bert noted earlier that the Archdiocese did not support trinity and that since 1994, they have been a separate entity. I also thought this was the case until recently when I found out that $6,400,000 was contributed by Archbishop Kelly to trinity to finance their latest expansion plans and stadium renovation. The magnitude of this "non-alum" donation shocked me, especially in light of the fact that he did not assist Holy Rosary when their alums, students, and supporters had raised $800,000 of the $1,000,000 needed to keep the school open. Most of this money is the result of previous and current donations to the Archdiocesan Fund, which is collected from parisheners at all the Catholic Churches. I don't think that many of us knew when we made our contributions that this much money was being allocated to a football stadium and other academic and non-academic facilities at trinity high school. This doesn't seem right. :irked:

 

Of course you have documentation.

Originally posted by H

Both players ended up being star quarterbacks. Would either player have done as well as they did if they had gone to X or T (who were both running stale, run-oriented offenses at the time these kids made their high school choices)? I think not.

 

Why you think they left the Catholic school system?

 

I was just responding to the assertion that I could not name star athletes that left the catholic school system for public schools. Of course we all know that the coaches at Male or Ballard never did anything to "attract" these two young men to their respective schools don't we. :thumb:

 

You made the point that the Ahren's boys left the private school system because they had a better chance of fulfilling their potential at their chosen (not mandated) public schools. Does that same argument not apply to those athletes that chose to play for a private school after being in the public school system or are you advocating a double standard?

Originally posted by Sports Fanatic

Of course you have documentation.

And of course you have documention to dispute Oxnards claim. Geez stop acting like this is a federal case no one here is accusing anyone of breaking any rules or laws! Both Oxnard and I are Catholics and we have access to the same sources you do. Oxnard is alumni of St.X for cripes sake. Stop being so defensive.

 

As far as the Ahren's boyes go, ok that is two Brothers, got anymore. If so I could also start a list as well if you like of JCPS students that were stars for T or X going back ten years shall we start that or will you just admit T and X get more stars out of JCPS than vice versa. I am game either way:thumb:

Originally posted by ram95

And of course you have documention to dispute Oxnards claim. Geez stop acting like this is a federal case no one here is accusing anyone of breaking any rules or laws! Both Oxnard and I are Catholics and we have access to the same sources you do. Oxnard is alumni of St.X for cripes sake. Stop being so defensive.

 

As far as the Ahren's boyes go, ok that is two Brothers, got anymore. If so I could also start a list as well if you like of JCPS students that were stars for T or X going back ten years shall we start that or will you just admit T and X get more stars out of JCPS than vice versa. I am game either way:thumb:

 

The fact that Oxnard is a Xavarian makes me more suspicious of his claims. I think that he and other Tiggers would like nothing better then to see Trinity get a black eye. I don't know or understand why you find it necessary to rake me over the coals like this but so be it. As I recall the person making a claim is usually the one burdened to prove their claims.

 

Review my initial post, I clearly stated that I had no statistics to back up my assertion. However you asked for examples:

 

Originally posted by ram95

On the point of Catholic Schools giving public schools a bunch of star atheletes list them. You can't, show some numbers or examples

 

I may not be the sharpest tack in the box but I think I provided exactly what you requested. Besides, (and I may not have stated this as clearly as intended, if so, my bad) I intended to convey that more total students (not just star athletes) leave private schools and enter public high schools then vice versa. Again, I will freely admit that I have no proof of that, it is only an assumption.

Originally posted by Sports Fanatic

I may not be the sharpest tack in the box but I think I provided exactly what you requested.

Two brothers don't count as a bunch in my book, but hey that is subjective, like this whole discussion

Besides, (and I may not have stated this as clearly as intended, if so, my bad) I intended to convey that more total students (not just star athletes) leave private schools and enter public high schools then vice versa. Again, I will freely admit that I have no proof of that, it is only an assumption.

That maybe but if it is true,(which I would agree it probably is) it is most likely due to financial reasons. The original point made was that many players approached and asked to try T or X many times never even concidered going there because they knew the could not afford to go until they were told they could get some financial aid. That is the point, when these kids find out they can go on financial aid to a good school with a high profile team they go to those schools. There is nothing illegal in this, and yes all Trinity and St. X kids can get the same help. But this is what the public Schools are upset about. The best players are all seeming to be going to Private schools and it has the effect of hurting JCPS programs and it leaves the impression of impropriety even when nothing wrong accured. This is what the Boycott is about, that said remember I think that the boycott is stupid and wrong, I am proud to see Manual not going along with it. But this line of discussion started when dcard explained why this boycott started and everyone jumped his case when he was just the messenger, thats not right either.

I'm not very interested in developing a list of who goes where or why. My gut feel is that more total students leave the Catholic Schools for the public schools, and more "star" athletes leave the public schools for the Catholic Schools. It is a personal decision in either case. But I will point out that a lot of kids leave public schools for reasons other than sports and a lot of kids leave Catholic Schools for reasons other than money. It's not any of our business why they move. I'll tell you something else. I suggest Trinity to EVERY young man or his parents I meet. I tell them about financial aid and anything else I can think of.

 

P.S. Add another name to your list - Phil Simms, St Rita and Southern High School, not to mention Ram95

So, to bring this back to football for a minute...I'm interested to hear what the rest of you think the Private JV & Frosh programs will do to fill in the holes in their schedules. Anyone?

 

I already posted what I thought would be good for the Frosh & JV Football teams for Trinity. What do the rest of you think would be options?

 

And for those of you representing other sports, what changes do you think will occur for your sport?

Originally posted by Sports Fanatic

You made the point that the Ahren's boys left the private school system because they had a better chance of fulfilling their potential at their chosen (not mandated) public schools. Does that same argument not apply to those athletes that chose to play for a private school after being in the public school system or are you advocating a double standard?

 

No double standard. Simply because, I would argue, students in the best public schools have just as many opportunities to fulfill their potential (whether it be on the athletic field, in the classroom, or later in life) as students in private schools. The opportunity comes from individual effort, not from the size of the tuition bill.

 

On the other hand, the Ahrens' decision was clear cut: Which school gives you the best chance to develop and showcase your quarterback skills? Not St X or Trinity. Maybe today their choices would have been different.

Originally posted by H

No double standard. Simply because, I would argue, students in the best public schools have just as many opportunities to fulfill their potential (whether it be on the athletic field, in the classroom, or later in life) as students in private schools. The opportunity comes from individual effort, not from the size of the tuition bill.

 

On the other hand, the Ahrens' decision was clear cut: Which school gives you the best chance to develop and showcase your quarterback skills? Not St X or Trinity. Maybe today their choices would have been different.

 

How is that not a double standard?

 

On the one hand you say a student can leave a private school environment for whatever reason if he or she thinks they will better flourish in the public school environment, but if a student in a public schools thinks he/she has a better opportunity in a private school after attending public schools there is something wrong with their decision making. What about the vast majority of students that for whatever reason are not able to get into, as you put it, the "best" public schools. You have addressed in other threads how hard it is to get into Male and that student athletes get no preferential treatment in admission. Just for the sake of this discussion lets say I agree with you, I'll even extend that to the other "best" public high schools (for this discussion only). How many students apply to Male or Manual or Ballard or PRP etc. each year that are turned down? On the other hand if you apply to Trinity and arrange to pay the tuition you get in. Contrary to what some believe no one is turned away. It is then up to the student to follow schools guidelines to remain in school. Maybe there are parents out there who do not want to put something as important as their childrens education to an enrollment lottery or some arbitrary quota and are willing to pay to insure they get their kids into a "better" school. And like the Ahrens' maybe there are kids who go to Trinity or X just because they feel they can better reach their athletic goals there. How is that a bad thing?

Originally posted by Sports Fanatic

How is that not a double standard?

 

On the one hand you say a student can leave a private school environment for whatever reason if he or she thinks they will better flourish in the public school environment, but if a student in a public schools thinks he/she has a better opportunity in a private school after attending public schools there is something wrong with their decision making. What about the vast majority of students that for whatever reason are not able to get into, as you put it, the "best" public schools. You have addressed in other threads how hard it is to get into Male and that student athletes get no preferential treatment in admission. Just for the sake of this discussion lets say I agree with you, I'll even extend that to the other "best" public high schools (for this discussion only). How many students apply to Male or Manual or Ballard or PRP etc. each year that are turned down? On the other hand if you apply to Trinity and arrange to pay the tuition you get in. Contrary to what some believe no one is turned away. It is then up to the student to follow schools guidelines to remain in school. Maybe there are parents out there who do not want to put something as important as their childrens education to an enrollment lottery or some arbitrary quota and are willing to pay to insure they get their kids into a "better" school. And like the Ahrens' maybe there are kids who go to Trinity or X just because they feel they can better reach their athletic goals there. How is that a bad thing?

 

 

Bingo, bango, bongo! I couldn't have said it better myself! (And I obviously didn't, within the tome I've already written in this and other threads!)

Originally posted by Oxnard

Bert noted earlier that the Archdiocese did not support trinity and that since 1994, they have been a separate entity. I also thought this was the case until recently when I found out that $6,400,000 was contributed by Archbishop Kelly to trinity to finance their latest expansion plans and stadium renovation. The magnitude of this "non-alum" donation shocked me, especially in light of the fact that he did not assist Holy Rosary when their alums, students, and supporters had raised $800,000 of the $1,000,000 needed to keep the school open. Most of this money is the result of previous and current donations to the Archdiocesan Fund, which is collected from parisheners at all the Catholic Churches. I don't think that many of us knew when we made our contributions that this much money was being allocated to a football stadium and other academic and non-academic facilities at trinity high school. This doesn't seem right. :irked:

 

$6,400,000? Really??

I heard St. X got 20 million

:lol: :lol: :lol: