Fastbreak

I don't see where politicians are being segregated any more than any other man woman or child in this country. The violence presented in film, televison, books, music, video games, etc. is what it is. Granted 99% of reasonably stable humans are able to sort real from imaginary... just as they are able to do with targets on a map or over the entry of their favorite big box store. If the point however, is the possible effect of words, pictures and music on unstable minds, then we need to pull our heads out of the sand and realize we're saturated in violent messages from every angle. You could take Palin, Limbaugh and the worst elements of the Tea Party completely out of the picture, and it wouldn't even be a drop in the ocean.

With sincere respect, I have to ask how politicians or political pundits are any more accountable than Hollywood, record labels and recording artists, bloggers, writers, video game makers, etc.? Honestly? I've been hearing most of my life that art and entertainment are sacrosanct. Anyone with a fully formed brain should understand it's make believe and not a guidebook for real world action. It's up to parents to keep their kids from viewing or hearing objectionable material. I don't have time at the moment, but this evening I'm going to post some images that are far more offensive or potentially capable to programming and triggering kooks to behave wrongly than a republican or democrat political map. If-as it is becoming abundantly clear-this nut was not motivated by Palin, Limbaugh, Olbermann, Maddow or any other political wonk... what might have conditioned him to believe his actions were warranted and acceptable? If we're going to dig into this, let's genuinely dig into the underbelly of our culture... not just skim the surface and throw stones at convenient targets. Oops... I said "target" :lol:

With all due respect Humpty, the whole problem many of us have with this is the total non-sequitir connection the Pima County Sheriff, Paul Krugman and others have made with absolutely no substantial evidence to back their opinions. The more that emerges about the kook in AZ, the more apparent it is that he was not motivated by politics, talk radio, the tea party or anything else that might actually matter to you or me. The more these partisans attempt to link Palin, Limbaugh, Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. to this clown's motives, the more credibility they lose. The longer Mr. Obama remains silent, rather than speaking up to calm emotions and caution against rushing to judgment as he did immediately following the Fort Hood shooting, the more credibility he loses with many of us that actually see both sides of the picture. Maybe he will do that tonight, but it's way too little too late for many of us now. I fully agree that heated rhetoric on boths sides needs to settle down, but you don't do that by pouring fuel on the fire as these folks have.

The difference between a fumbling kook with a gun and a trained kook with a gun is evident in comparing the AZ shooting with the Fort Hood shooting. Even though the Fort Hood shooter was surrounded by highly trained warriors, his training permitted him to shoot at will, swapping out quality 20 and 30 round mags allowing him to fire off over 200 rounds before he encountered other armed soldiers that could shoot back and stop him. Dozens of trained soldiers were not able to stop him without firearms. The AZ nut was tackled by average citizens. In the hours of endless coverage I recall hearing that the AZ shooter's replacement magazine malfunctioned, the kook had already popped the spent magazine and inserted a new one. Had it not been for the malfunction of the second magazine, (which leads me to believe I can guess the manufacturer) there may have been more carnage. Because the spare mag choked, he was able to be tackled and pinned allowing a lady in her 60s to pull the mag away from him. In all gruesome sincerity, a pair of quality 15 - 20 round mags that don't choke and fit flush with the base of the grip negating anyone's ability to grab an extended mag tube and pull it away would have been more effective. As far as evaluating the circumstances to look at ways that "might" have an impact in the future and avoid wasting an opportunity to do our job... I strongly suspect that a close look at the Pima County Sheriff doing all the finger pointing is in order. It is apparent that his office was aware of this troubled soul and had many encounters with him long before the shooting. Why was this basket-case allowed to buy a gun, much less roam the streets at will? When we were kids, the old rule of "The one that smelt it dealt it" applies here. This Sheriff was on TV pointing fingers with no facts to substantiate his claims within hours of the horrid event. This one doesn't pass the smell test.

Oops... here's another irresponsible company that needs a PC facelift:

I have to take issue with the "Crosshairs" on congressional districts... whether republican or democrat... it's a stretch of Grand Canyon proportions to seriously assert that this had/has anything to do with the actions of a nutjob. It's even more dramatic than suggesting that the Beatles were at fault for the actions of Charles Manson. If it's true however, I can think of at least one national retailer that's going to have to come up a new name and logo:

I read somewhere that the Hells Angels were going to be there to prevent the Westboro kooks from picketing. I'm not a big fan of the Hells Angels, but if they do show up and prevent the Westboro loons from desecrating a little girl's funeral, I will salute them.

What troubles me the most with the above scenario, is that even if the AZ clown had attended a Tea Party rally, or had campaigned for Palin or was a Rush devotee... why would the same advice we are told to extend to Muslim Radicals not apply to this loser? Some on the left are so eager to shut up Palin, Limbaugh, the Tea Party, etc. they are willing to not just do the opposite of what they endorsed following the Fort Hood shooting, they are making unrealistic assertions with no facts whatsoever to back them up... in simple words, they are lying hypocrites.

November 5, 2009 at 1:34 p.m. Nidal Malik Hasan, a U.S. Army major, serving as a psychiatrist, leapt upon a desk at Fort Hood military base in Texas and shouted: "Allahu Akbar!" He began firing rounds from his semi-automatic pistol at unarmed servicemen and women. Several attempted to subdue him using chairs and tables at hand, and were killed or wounded in the process. It was not until Hasan was confronted by fellow soldiers armed with similar firearms that he was shot and stopped. In the few minutes of his shooting spree, he fired 214 rounds using 20 and 30 round magazines in his weapon, with another 177 unfired rounds still in his pockets. 13 people including one pregnant female were killed and 30 others were wounded. Following the shooting, we were told by President Obama, and many talking heads in the media to not jump to conclusions. Don’t rush to judgment. Wait until all the facts are in. The actions of this one killer were not indicative of all Muslims. I’m okay with that. Sounds like good advice. Where is it now? Why the rush to attribute the Arizona loon’s actions to Limbaugh, Palin and the Tea Party… when there’s not one shred of evidence that this guy had any connection with any of them? Not a loud shout of “Dittoes Rush!” or “This one’s for you Momma Bear!” As this nut’s profile emerges, it becomes more clear that he’s about as far from the conservative right as the liberals trying to pound his square peg into a round hole. The more I consider the eagerness of political hacks to attribute blame within hours of such a horrendous event, and the pass they have gotten in the media to promulgate such despicable lies… with no evidence whatsoever to back their vitriol, the more disgusted I become. And some of you wonder why newspapers and traditional media are going the way of the dodo bird…

Toughest laws in the world could not stop Cumbria tragedy http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article7142568.ece Gun Control's Twisted Outcome Restricting firearms has helped make England more crime-ridden than the U.S. http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome Last December, London's Evening Standard reported that armed crime, with banned handguns the weapon of choice, was "rocketing." In the two years following the 1997 handgun ban, the use of handguns in crime rose by 40 percent, and the upward trend has continued. From April to November 2001, the number of people robbed at gunpoint in London rose 53 percent. Gun crime is just part of an increasingly lawless environment. From 1991 to 1995, crimes against the person in England's inner cities increased 91 percent. And in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime more than doubled. Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times greater than in New York. England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are far higher than America's, and 53 percent of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police. In a United Nations study of crime in 18 developed nations published in July, England and Wales led the Western world's crime league, with nearly 55 crimes per 100 people.

Detailed below are some of the worst incidents of School shootings between 1996 and 2002 as documented by the BBC. I find it intruguing that five of the top ten occurred in Great Britain and Germany with gun laws that make even the toughest proposed here in the U.S. look weak. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1953425.stm History of school shootings Scotland, March 1996: Gun enthusiast Thomas Hamilton shoots 16 children and their teacher dead at their primary school in Dunblane, Scotland before killing himself. Yemen, March 1997: A man with an assault rifle attacked hundreds of pupils at two schools in Sanaa, Yemen, killing six children and two others. He was sentenced to death the next day. United States, October 1997: A 16-year-old boy fatally stabbed his mother before shooting dead two students, including his former girlfriend, at Pearl High School in Pearl, Mississippi. United States, December 1997: A 14-year old boy killed three students attending a prayer meeting at Heath High School in West Paducah, Kentucky. United States, March 1998: Two boys aged 13 and 11 killed four pupils and a teacher after setting off fire alarms at Westside Middle School in Jonesboro, Arkansas. United States, April 1999: Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 12 of their classmates and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, before killing themselves. Germany, November 1999: A 15-year-old student in Meissen, eastern Germany, stabbed his teacher to death after taking bets from classmates he would dare commit the crime. He was later jailed for seven years. Germany, March 2000: A 16-year-old pupil at a private boarding school in the Bavarian town of Branneburg, shot a 57-year-old teacher, who later died from injuries. The teenager - who also shot himself - was facing expulsion from school after failing a cannabis test. Germany, February 2002: A former pupil killed his headmaster and set off pipe bombs in the technical school he had recently been expelled from in Freising near Munich. The man also shot dead his boss and a foreman at the company he worked for before turning the gun on himself. Another teacher was shot in the face, but survived. Germany, April 2002: Seventeen people killed after a gunman - a former pupil - opens fire in a school in Erfurt, eastern Germany. He then turned the gun on himself.

Think Tough Gun Laws Keep Europeans Safe? Think Again... http://www.lewrockwell.com/lott/lott68.1.html Multiple victim public shootings appear to be at least as common in Europe as they are here. The following is a partial list of attacks occurring in Europe since 2001. All of them occurred in gun free zones, places where guns in the hands of civilians were not allowed: Zug, Switzerland, September 27, 2001: a man murdered 15 members of a cantonal parliament. Tours, France, October 29, 2001: four people were killed and 10 wounded when a French railway worker started killing people at a busy intersection in the city. Nanterre, France, March 27, 2002: a man kills eight city councilors after a city council meeting. Erfurt, Germany on April 26, 2002: a former student kills 18 at a secondary school. Freising, Germany on February 19, 2002: Three people killed and one wounded. Turin, Italy on October 15, 2002: Seven people were killed on a hillside overlooking the city. Madrid, Spain, October 1, 2006: a man kills two employees and wounds another at a company that he was fired from. Emsdetten, Germany, November 20, 2006: a former student murders 11 people at a high school. Southern Finland, November 7, 2007: Seven students and the principal were killed at a high school. Naples, Italy, September 18, 2008: Seven dead and two seriously wounded in a public meeting hall (not included in totals below because it may possibly have involved the mafia). Kauhajoki, Finland, Sept. 23, 2008: 10 people were shot to death at a college. Winnenden, Germany, March 11, 2009: a 17-year-old former student killed 15 people, including nine students and three teachers. Lyon, France, March 19, 2009: ten people injured after a man opened fire on a nursery school. Athens, Greece, April 10, 2009: three people killed and two people injured by a student at a vocational college. Rotterdam, Netherlands, April 11, 2009: three people killed and 1 injured at a crowded cafe. Vienna, Austria, May 24, 2009: one dead and 16 wounded in an attack on a Sikh Temple. Espoo, Finland, Dec. 31, 2009: 4 killed while shopping at a mall on New Year's Eve. Cumbria, England, June 2, 2010: 12 people killed by a British taxi driver.

One 30 round clip or two 15 round clips or three 10 round clips... it doesn't matter all that much. Even a basic amount of training and practice allowing for skilled magazine ejection and replacement would render this point moot. One of the points no one seems to grasp is that some of the worst mass shootings have come in countries with the strictest gun laws. I can and will prove this, with links but do not have time at the moment to dig them up. The whole point of gun laws is that they are only effective with those willing to abide by them. Criminals are criminals because they have no regard for laws. They will get guns, bullets and oversized mags just as easily as drug users can go out and find pot, cocaine, heroin and other illegal drugs. But unlike drug users who primarily harm themselves, if only criminals and law enforcement have guns, who will be able to stand against the criminals until the police arrive?

"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun!" Barack Obama at a Philadelphia fundraiser in 2008. http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/ Jared Lee Loughner was a registered independent, that didn't vote in the 2010 election. He was dismissed from college for displaying frightening mental issues and scaring classmates. He smoked pot, had a skull topped shrine in his backyard but proclaimed to be an atheist, enjoyed reading Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto, obsessed with the Mayan prophecy of a 2012 apocalypse and mind control. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1345895/Tucson-gunman-Jared-Loughner-appears-court.html#ixzz1AhfmM9sV Sounds like a conservative tea partier to me... (...not.) The perpetual insistence of the liberal media to portray conservatives as misogynistic, homophobic, racist anti-Semites is beyond reason and beneath contempt. How is the attempt to blame Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh not equivalently painting the crosshairs on them? How can anyone purport to condemn this and then turn right around and do it themselves? Hypocrites...

Have people no shame? Blaming Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh or any other talking head for this nut's actions with no evidence he ever even listened to them is irresponsible. Trying to affix blame without all the facts is absurd and reckless. If this kook was moved by political motives, why not stop at shooting the representative? Why shoot innocent children and helpless seniors too? This is a sad and reprehensible event committed by a mentally unstable individual in sore need of professional attention. Rushing to attach it to words or pictures by one's political opposition in an attempt to vilify and silence them is also reprehensible. By this reasoning: J.D. Salinger who wrote "The Catcher in the Rye" is responsible for Mark David Chapman killing John Lennon. Jody Foster is apparently responsible for John Hinckley Jr. shooting President Reagan. Lockheed Martin is at fault for building the fighter jets Bobby Kennedy pledged to send to Israel if elected president that led Sirhan Sirhan to shoot him. The Beatles and their White Album are responsible for inspiring Charles Manson to order the killings of Sharon Tate and others to trigger Manson's apocalyptic vision of Helter Skelter. Pornography is to be blamed for Ted Bundy killing over 30 young women. I could go on... there are many other examples. The point is, every kook has an excuse. There is no valid motive to go out and take innocent lives. Our media's rush to blame political dialogue and debate for this idiot's actions is the height of absurdity and hypocrisy.

Goldie, I can honestly say, the highlight of my evening was finally getting to meet you face-to-face. GRC is very fortunate to have you as their #1 fan. GRC is the real deal. They have the size, talent and depth to be playing on the final Saturday in March. :thumb:

The King brothers are both great kids and competitors. Congratulations to Kyle, Luke and the whole family... job well done!

Like Henry, I need to check the General forum more often. 620 CCs is over half the displacement of the early Honda Civic engines. Thankfully, our God is not limited by time and space. Even our late prayers are of some benefit. Get well, and know you are loved Brother. Merry Christmas!

Knowing what little I do about you and your employment situation, I find this post to be a real head scratcher for me. How is it remotely possible that you would have your primary employment if it weren't for "upper class" patrons to fuel it? I'm not trying to be a smartass... I'm genuinely interested to hear your view.

I hate to be the one to break it to you FKYW but you may not really be an atheist... you may just be dyslexic... :idunno: :idunno: :idunno:

UPS has long been saddled with cumbersome contracts with the Teamsters Union. Fed Ex has fought unionization-especially with the Teamsters-at every turn stating that such an arrangement would make their business less efficient, less reliable and less financially feasible. From what you say, there could be something to that.

I just read the Declaration. If that document can be pulled for being "offensive to large numbers of people" I have to assume that a "Gay-dar" app wouldn't float at all. :lol: FWIW, Jesus... the true Jesus Christ, and His Word have always been "offensive to large numbers of people"... and still are apparently. We are on track to witness the Bible banned as "hate speech" and a new morality based upon majority opinion established as the acceptable "faith". The inmates are steadily taking control of the asylum. We are politically correcting ourselves into the landfill of history. If anyone can read the Manhattan Declaration and specifically quote anything "in context" that is legitimately "hateful" I would greatly appreciate it and confess my error.

Home... in bed with a fever.

The only show on television I make any attempt to tune in with any regularity is "The Office" and it's not on either list. I do watch Fox News and some Glenn Beck on occasion. Very occasionally view Parks & Rec and 30 Rock due to proximity to The Office. Usually I'm locked in on History, Discovery, Nat Geo, Science Channel, TLC... I still like to learn new stuff. No idea what list I qualify to be on. Oh yeah... and I absolutely love old episodes of the Iron Chef... the original Japanese version.

I'm glad to know all that fish oil I've been taking is doing some good. I'm looking forward to seeing Ferg get busy for the Battlers. :thumb: