Fastbreak

I could be off base, but the first thing that leaps to my mind is Hispanic on Hispanic crimes. Central American gang activity is on the rise across the country, and especially in areas with high drug trafficking. Not saying this is the case, but it would not surprise me to find that it is either.

Any data on the attacks or info on who the attackers may be?

No, I do not believe the current backlash we are seeing is media driven. If anything, the media is doing everything possible to squelch anti-Muslim sentiments and promote pro-Muslim sentiments. The very manner of coverage of the taxi driver stabbing indicates an agenda to promote certain PC details and downplay other key facts that go against the predetermined storyline.

Since when did hatred, bigotry, discrimination, crime and racism have a right or a left wing?

A different article with an interesting stat from NYC Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly: Including the attack on Sharif, there have been 10 hate crimes reported against Muslims in the city so far this year, up from six total last year, Kelly said. By comparison, the top hate-crime categories this year are 93 anti-Semitic, 36 anti-gay and 23 anti-black incidents, according to the NYPD. The anti-Muslim total is so low, "I don't think you can draw any conclusions from these numbers," Kelly said. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100826/ap_on_re_us/us_cabbie_stabbed Not suggesting that this event isn't unfortunate and tragic in and of itself, but how is it that anti-semitic crimes outnumber anti-muslim crimes by 9.3 - 1 and we have not witnessed a proportionate outrage in the media? I have some ideas, but I'm curious what all of you have to say about it?

I can be solidly against Fred Phelps and his little den of loons and their unnecessarily provocative protests at the funerals of fallen heroes and not be against Baptists coast-to-coast. I can believe that the proposed mosque at ground zero is an unnecessary provocation and a genuinely bad idea... and not be against every other proposed mosque in the U.S.

Lots of interesting possibilities arise as I think about the Village People singing about the YMMA... :lol:

Haven't checked this forum in a few days. I'm a little late to the party. Congratulations to Timmy! We're all really proud of you, and wish you the greatest success at EKU.

From what I am able to glean from the article, my position is different from my feelings about the GZ mosque.

On a positive note... at least you actually stepped up and watched the video. :thumb: I genuinely applaud you for doing so. :thumb: If it turned out that Mr. Shoebat is credible in his interpretation and commentary on this matter, would you at least concede that some of us have a valid basis for our concerns?

What is the mystical virtue of being "impartial"? I don't know anyone that is truly "impartial". You certainly are not. RM, Habib Cammando, Run to State... no one on this site is "impartial". Are you saying that since this guy has chosen a side he is disqualified to comment on the activities of a fellow Arab playing for the other team? How could we possibly trust any of the information disclosed by our intelligence officers on the activities of our adversaries if being "impartial" is the gold standard of credibility? I can see now I have no reason to pay any attention at all to what Keith Olberman, Chris Matthews, Katie Couric, et. al. might have to say about Republicans, conservatives, Sarah Palin, etc. So, the fact that Shoebat is fluent in Arabic, and able to translate what the Imam is saying in his Arabic writings, speeches and interviews... he is to be discounted because he has an "opinion" about what he is translating? I mean, it's not like any other Arab can't come along and say, "Mr. Shoebat is lying. His interpretation is false. The Imam actually said... blah, blah, blah... and this is why." This is one of the silliest things I've ever heard. I can understand why some may want this thread closed... :lol: :lol: :lol:

While I acknowledge your adherence to a logistically consistent position, I do not believe that you honestly and passionately believe that such a structure at the site of one of the most horrendous atrocities attributed to the Crusaders by the Muslim world would be the intelligent, compassionate and healing solution to interfaith conflicts in this day and age. Even though these events occurred nearly 1,000 years ago, there is no way THE Church today, would suggest something so obviously painful to Muslims and to any legitimate hopes of building genuine interfaith common ground. You are smart enough to know that simply stating what your heart tells you is correct for one such proposed structure should apply to the other. Are you truly so committed to a political ideology that you cannot simply affirm what your heart tells you is true?

:lol: :lol: :lol: Of course... Since you can't view a video that clearly presents why some of us have legitimate concerns... how about answering my previous question to you?

Yep... glad you recognized it as such! :thumb: I find it amusing that you feel the need to highlight what is obviously my deliberate and humorously sarcastic use of “overblown hyperbole” while giving a pass to the sincere use of “overblown hyperbole” to grasp and reach and stretch to demonize me as a lying, bigoted, racist, xenophobe “hater” intolerant of other’s beliefs. Amazing… Have any of you watched the video I posted?

I don't know about you Habib, but I often begin with a preconceived notion or set of ideas that actually refines and sharpens as I think it through, research, read and hear other opinions on the matter. There are some generous souls that would call this "intellectual curiosity". If I am guilty of anything, it is beginning to post before I have fully researched and thought out a position that has evolved over several days. Believe it or not, I actually come to this forum for recreation. I am guilty of approaching many posts in a less than "life and death... you may be called upon to fall on your sword" attitude. I've never attacked it like a chess match calculating several moves in advance. On this matter we just see things differently.

I dunno... after reading all of Habib's thoughtful words, I think we might just need to all get behind a Muslim Mall and Amusement Park complex on the actual Ground Zero site. It's ignorant, naive, bigoted, racist and what the heck... homophobic too somehow for me to suggest that any special consideration be affored the families of over 3,000 dead Americans at the site of an actual battlefield. I now see the foolishness of my ways.

I'll make it really simple and clear then... In answer to the opening post of this thread… simply put… I think building this specific mosque at this specific site is a stupid idea. I fully understand why some find this mosque an insensitive provocation… and a stupid idea. If the genuine intent by Imam Rauf is healing and bridge building… the Imam needs a new P.R. agent and new advisors. To be crystal clear, I think this is a stupid idea. Rather than being a bumbling simpleton with warm and fuzzy intentions and a botched plan, I think Imam Rauf is duplicitous with ulterior motives that may not become clear until too late. So, yet again, I think this is a stupid idea. For me to make these statements about this specific Imam, or in the broader sense Muslims intent upon forcefully or covertly pushing Sharia Law (ala the Taliban) is no different than me stating that I don’t think Fred Phelps’ bunch of so-called- Baptists have any business spreading their anti-gay message of hate at the funerals of fallen servicemen. Phelps may have a First Amendment right to make a colossal sphincter of himself, but I don’t have to endorse him doing it just because I believe in freedom for all. Have I mentioned that I think the GZ mosque is a really stupid idea. I have a First Amendment right to express my opinion too. NOWHERE have I made a sweeping statement indicting ALL Muslims. You can’t find one sentence or paragraph or chapter I’ve written that says anything close to that… or you would have quoted me by now. Oh, and I think the GZ mosque is a stupid idea. If there is anything in this post you genuinely believe is bigoted, racist, homophobic, intolerant, or a call for our government to leap into action and deny rights to anyone… so be it... I'm tired of trying to explain why the sky is blue... and that the GZ mosque is a stupid idea. Have you watched the video I posted yet? It’s not stupid. :thumb:

And you expect me to believe you wouldn’t if you actually thought the government might actually shut me up? :lol: I’ve never said Muslims can’t worship near GZ. They can go pray in the pit of WTC Tower One for all I care. I simply disagree with this group building the proposed mosque. The First Amendment does not grant ANYONE of ANY faith the RIGHT to construct their religious building ANYWHERE they want. The restrictions I cited validate this. There are thousands of examples coast-to-coast. It may come as a disappointment to you, but NOWHERE have I stated that Muslims are entitled to fewer rights than anyone else of any other faith… including the one I try to practice. This is simply not a First Amendment issue IMO. I have no doubt some ACLU attorney will attempt to prove otherwise, but this has nothing to do with Muslims being free to practice their faith. I have led FCA groups at a private Christian school and at a public school. There were no restrictions where and when we could meet and worship at the Church school… other than just being courteous, and not double scheduling the same space at the same time with other groups. There were many restrictions at the public school. How in your logic is it reasonable to state that anyone can build anything they want “in the name of religion” lest we violate some wispy First Amendment implication, and yet kids across the country are not truly free to worship as they please in OUR public schools. What about pulling down the Ten Commandments and other Christian symbols in or near public structures? Give me a break. We whiz on Christians and the Bible daily in this country in the name of the First Amendment. I think this specific mosque at this specific location is a bad idea. I am doing nothing to actively stop it. I simply disagree that there is any inherent RIGHT for them to build it there. You are welcome to view it however you please. Given time, I am 100% confident I will be proven correct on this matter. I view your position as naïve. Sharia is more than religious beliefs, it is a potent political worldview bent upon forcing its will upon all… a system of cultural governance completely contrary to the freedoms and liberties you so passionately argue to defend. From this standpoint, cloaking an antithetical political system within the cloak of “religion” to procure First Amendment rights is disingenuous to put it politely. NOWHERE have I included ALL Muslims in the sweeping generality you once again assert. All Muslims wishing to live in peace within our culture and laws and Constitution are 100% fine by me. Those desiring to subvert our nation and culture by subjecting us to Sharia can pound sand. You are grasping at straws attempting to corner me into a place with a label I will not wear. Nor am I a liar. I realize from your tone you probably don’t hear this a lot… but you are wrong.

I agree... I too find myself agreeing with you most of the time. I cannot go into great detail, but this topic is more than a passing interest for me. There is much more to this story than is being reported in our press. Walid Shoebat is a highly credible source of intelligence on this subject. I encourage you to watch the video when you get the chance. I don't think it will be a waste of your time. :thumb:

So... does that mean you would be in support of an initiative to construct a 13 story Crusader House dedicated to Pope Urban II in Ma'arrat al-Numan for the purpose of building bridges between peoples of all faiths?

Which brings us back to what is emerging as my main theme. We are not talking about "the vast majority of practicing Muslims are peaceful citizens of whatever country they call home" we're talking about this specific Imam and his specifically proposed mosque. Have you watched the video I posted? Maybe then you will begin to understand my concerns. I don't expect you to agree necessarily, but it would be a nice start for you to understand I am not merely spouting off uninformed opinion shaped in fear and ignorance. :thumb:

Aside from the fact that many fundamentalist Muslim sects practice religious and social intolerance in the name of their faith and understanding of the Koran... good point. :lol: I'm sorry 'Stang, I'm really not trying to pick a squabble here with you but come on... :lol:

Has anyone viewed the video I posted? I have read Mr. Shoebat's book. It should be required reading for Homeland Security, CIA, FBI, U.S. Military, etc.

Nowhere have I stated that this particular structure "cannot" be built at the specified location. I have stated that it should not be built there... and it's a stupiid idea. Abotrtion is "legal"... I disagree with it in about 95% of circumstances. There are about 2,000 mosques in the U.S. I have a problem with this one, primarily because of where it is proposed to be. That's .05% (5/100ths of one percent) I have a problem with... and I'm intolerant? :idunno:

The attached clip is about 17 minutes long, but is well worth the time with a highly credible source who explains what we're not hearing, and what is really being said in Arabic about the proposed mosque. This is only the tip of what I have been reading and learning about all this. You may make up your own mind. :thumb: