And his stats are bad for a 38-39 year old?

 

I think they will also see that MJ played 15 seasons, while Kobe played 20+ (maybe).

 

 

And they may look at those stats and say Kobe averaged 28 points a game in year 16 while MJ averaged 22 in year 15.

Don't get me wrong I like the debate but at this point there isn't anything anyone can say to change someones mind.

 

They aren't understanding what I am saying though. Hopefully post 60 clears it up.

Better hope he gets Dwight Howard and a solid PG or it ain't happening.

 

Rondo. Rondo. Rondo. Rondo. Rondo.

I see no way that the general NBA following crowd will ever think Kobe is even MJ's equal let alone better. He may end up being thought of as the 2nd best to ever play, which I think is unlikely, but I don't see what he could do to pass Jordan. I don't care if he gets to 10 titles. MJ won 6 titles (should/would have been 8) without a dominant post player. Who else has won multiple without one? Jordan has 10 scoring titles, a handful of MVPs, and once he got it figured out never was taken out in the playoffs (I'm not counting the Wizards years, no one should). Kobe should and will be mentioned with the other mega-greats of the game and will be ranked somewhere from 2nd-10th according to who ever is doing the rankings.

 

I think it is also worth noting that Jordan won without a dominant post player and a great point guard. Heck, go beyond that, he didn't even have a good post player or point guard.

 

Generally, those are viewed as the two most important positions in the game, and Jordan not only won, but dominated without either, with those being the two weakest positions on the team. That is worth something, IMO.

They aren't understanding what I am saying though. Hopefully post 60 clears it up.

 

I do get your point and it will be very unfortunate in my mind if that's true.

 

However (all speculation) when Kobe retires, people will be saying that he is an amazing talent, one of the best, but that he wasn't better than Jordan. And that sentiment will not just disappear with time. People will pass that sentiment on for generations. When I get older, and I'd imagine the majority of basketball fans of my generation get older, and we are watching a game with our grandkids, the grandkid will say, "Player X is the best ever". And the response will be, "No...he's not better than Michael Jordan". Kobe's name will not replace that, no matter how he finishes his career.

 

And just to play along, sure some will run to the books and look up statistics, those that do could see that Kobe has more points than MJ, but that will be a big minority in my opinion. And those that do run to the books, will probably also be dorky enough to see that Kobe played 5+ seasons more than MJ and really compare everything with a fine tooth comb. They aren't just goint to look at one factor, those types of individuals usually don't in my opinion.

 

I totally get what you're saying PP92. I just think you're wrong haha! I don't run to look at the books to see if Chamberlain or Russell was really the most dominating big man back in his day. I take my father's word for it. I feel bad for your grandkids if you rob them the opportunity of thinking Jordan wasn't the GOAT haha jk!

I am not saying Kobe is better than MJ. Never said that. Not saying that. You all are trying to convince me of something I already believe for the same reasons. All I am saying is that in 200 years I can see people forming the belief that Kobe is better than MJ based off of his stats IF he ends up with more points than MJ or the all time leading scorer. That's all I am saying. Holy crap......

If you want to get really dorky with Stats MJ you need compare them using per 36 minutes. It's pretty close. Only thing that separates Jordan is MVP's and 1 ring.

Very true. I think it was FKYW who posed the "what if" question about Kobe winning another ring and I totally threadjacked this. I just love talking MJ. My apologies haha!

I am VERY good about getting my own threads off-topic.

All I have to offer is that in 200 years, people (I envision) will have abandoned basketball as a legitimate sport and realized that FOOTBALL (American) is the one TRUE sport worth fanaticsm. Oh...and go Kobe! Break the record!

Yeah, the experts and diehards maybe. The average NBA fan isn't going to go back and watch MJ and Kobe's careers to form an opinion. They'll be too caught up in their NBA. And I am not saying that they are all going to say that Kobe is better than MJ. I am simply saying it is conceivable that in 200 years some people will see Kobe as better than MJ if he finishes with more points than MJ. I can't find fault in that statement and that belief is what was referenced in the article. I think you are missing that important point of my comments. There are people who believe Kobe is better than MJ now. Are you saying that if Kobe passes MJ in points that in 200 years people won't say Kobe is better than MJ because of that stat?

Do people see Hank Aaron as being better than Babe Ruth? Case closed. The fact that Kobe had more points will not factor in for the majority of people a long time from now, now, 10 years now, 600 years from now IMO. It certainly hasn't helped Kareem in regards to MJ or Karl Malone for that matter.

All I have to offer is that in 200 years, people (I envision) will have abandoned basketball as a legitimate sport and realized that FOOTBALL (American) is the one TRUE sport worth fanaticsm. Oh...and go Kobe! Break the record!

...or football is banned because it's simplistic, unsafe, and boring.

Do people see Hank Aaron as being better than Babe Ruth? Case closed. The fact that Kobe had more points will not factor in for the majority of people a long time from now, now, 10 years now, 600 years from now IMO. It certainly hasn't helped Kareem in regards to MJ or Karl Malone for that matter.

 

 

My father swears Aaron is better than Babe Ruth. Some people don't believe he existed. Just like some don't believe Wilt scored 100 points. You're delusional if you don't think some people will look back in 200 years and see that Kobe had more points than MJ and one less title and think Kobe is better. I'm not saying everybody. I'm not saying most. I'm saying some. Because some people think Kobe is better than MJ NOW with lesser stats. I'm not talking experts. I'm not even talking respectable average NBA fans. I'm talking some people. In 200 years Skip Bayless V will be screaming at Stephen A. Smith V and saying Kobe was better than MJ on ESPN10-3D.

Seriously, I can envision Kobe dragging his corpse out there and shooting 50 times a game just to get this record. At this point, the Lakers will probably allow him to as well.

 

He will for sure do that if he has to. His last season might be ugly. :lol:

 

Welp...

Welp...

He still has one or two un-retires in him.