Would you go to the games if the Bengals got new ownership who were really trying to win, but were coming up short in on field success? Sounds like your biggest beef is with Mike Brown. I am not a disciple of Mike Brown, I just happen to be a life long Bengal fan. I try to keep the two separate as much as possible.

 

Yes I would, and yes it is. I used to be a season ticket holder but I was tired of donating my money. I used to be the same way but I reached a point where I couldn't anymore.

Not even close to accurate.

 

Please tell me how it is not accurate? And don't give me the whole the Bengals sold out for 8 straight years in a row, because that backs my statement up more than yours. During those 8 years of sell outs, guess what happened? People believed they could be good. 2004 Palmers first year starting and coming off an 8 and 8 season people were excited and had hopes for them. 2005 people definitely thought they would do well, same in 2006, 2007, and even 2008. 2008 they would have had a hard time selling out games after Palmer got hurt, but so many season tickets were sold before that season because people had expectations for that team to do well. After the 2008 season people didn't really expect them to win in 2009 and we saw season ticket holders decide not to renew their seats, which led to games needing help on the last two days to sell out. Last year expectations were high again, and saw that by them setting records at training camp for attendance. However economy was bad, so season tickets didn't really sell much still. So once they sucked early, it was easy for people not to show up.

 

People from the middle of 2003 up until the 2008 season when Palmer got hurt did believe the team could do something. Once we had that horrible 2008 season of 4-11-1 is when we saw the crowds start going back down, because people have high hopes for the team anymore. It's the samething with the Reds too. I bet we see attendance go down some after this year, then say they don't do to well next year, we will see it go down again. People have proven in this city if they believe the team will do well, they come. If they don't believe they will, they don't come. So please tell me again how that is not accurate?

I thought we were talking about the Bengals? The NFL is a different animal. Somehow they managed 80 something sell outs in a row and they have been terrible for 20 years. I'm a true fan but I'm not paying Mike Brown to put a crappy product on the field especially when he isn't even trying. If going to games when the teams suck makes you a true fan than count me out I guess. I will watch games on my crystal clear TV at home drinking a 12 pack vs the cost of 1 beer at the game. Why should they go and watch a crappy product? Fans have every right to be fair weather in terms of their attendance at games. I'm not turning my back on the Bengals 100% but I am done giving away my money to Mr. Brown. Sure I will watch on TV (When it's not blacked out) but that's nowhere near the contributions of a season ticket holder.

 

It is all about believing if the team will be good or not. Which in my previous post the Bengals did have people believing they could do well and had the potential to do well since the beginning of 2003. 2003 8-8 got excitement building, 2004 8-8 with Palmer showing real signs of being great in his last few starts to really get people excited, 2005 division champs, 2006 barely miss the playoffs, 2007 they go 7-9 however not bad enough to get people to stop believing. 2008 season started getting the believing down and lost some season ticket sells for 2009. They still sold out every 2009 game though with a little help since economy was bad. They got 80 something sell outs in a row because people believed they had a chance to do well, and had reason to think that so they came. That is the same reason before 2003 they hardly ever sold out, because their was no reason to believe they could do well. Same reason why this year we probably won't see many home games because people believe they won't do well. People come when they believe the team has a chance, and its the same for every sport around here.

Why would you spend that much money if you didn't think they could win. Makes no sense to me. It's like going back to a restaurant repeatedly that has a great atmosphere but serves dog do-do. I wcertainly wouldn't that. But obviously there are those that will. Makes me think of PT Barnum

There is no way to justify spending over $700 a year for mediocrity, not in this day and time. I had season tickets for seven seasons and the last few games last year I knew I would not renew my tickets. I had a blast for the most part but when I see 20K seats not filled I knew I shouldn't be spending full price for tickets. If I want to go to a game I know I can walk down and likely get ticket for cheap so that's what I'll do if I do go back. As much as I want to see this young squad progress they will never get to the highest level under the current regime. It's sad that we must wait until Mike Brown passes and just hope that when that time comes Katie is intelligent enough to see the forest through the trees. They run the franchise like a corner store and haven't changed their business practices to match the rest of the NFL.

 

Jim Lippincott is the directory of player personnel, what are his qualifications? Less than five scouts, that's a complete joke kind of like the Marge Schott way, "we aren't going to pay guys to watch games". A few over average seasons had this city in a frenzy for the Bengals and what did we get, nothing. Back at square one and if we every progress the core players will be gone and we're right back to square one again.

Why would you spend that much money if you didn't think they could win. Makes no sense to me. It's like going back to a restaurant repeatedly that has a great atmosphere but serves dog do-do. I wcertainly wouldn't that. But obviously there are those that will. Makes me think of PT Barnum

 

I am not saying people should go spend money if they don't think they will win. However he said that the reason why people are not coming is because they are tired of Brown which is not true. It's just an excuse people use not to come. I mean take this team for example, say they shock people and actually have a pretty decent season. We will see the stadium get more and more full every week, if people think they will actually do well. Which say they finish at just 8 and 8 this year, guess what is going to happen for next year. People will think that they have a chance to be good, since they did pretty well with a bunch of rookies. So we will see people start buying season tickets again, instead of giving them up because they would believe that the team could be good. It wouldn't matter if Mike Brown was still the owner, if they show real signs this year. Then people will start coming back at the end of this year and to start next year. If they do well people will come even though he is the owner, him being the owner won't stop people from filling the place up if people start believing they can be good.

I am not saying people should go spend money if they don't think they will win. However he said that the reason why people are not coming is because they are tired of Brown which is not true. It's just an excuse people use not to come. I mean take this team for example, say they shock people and actually have a pretty decent season. We will see the stadium get more and more full every week, if people think they will actually do well. Which say they finish at just 8 and 8 this year, guess what is going to happen for next year. People will think that they have a chance to be good, since they did pretty well with a bunch of rookies. So we will see people start buying season tickets again, instead of giving them up because they would believe that the team could be good. It wouldn't matter if Mike Brown was still the owner, if they show real signs this year. Then people will start coming back at the end of this year and to start next year. If they do well people will come even though he is the owner, him being the owner won't stop people from filling the place up if people start believing they can be good.

 

OK. Since you have stated that you will attend some home games, you must beleive they can win

It does matter to people that Mike Brown in the owner. Some people aren't willing to give him their money no matter what.

It does matter to people that Mike Brown in the owner. Some people aren't willing to give him their money no matter what.

 

That is true. However my original point had to do with how you said the stadium was empty, because of how fed up people are with Mike Brown. However if people believe the team was going to be good, people would be there it wouldn't matter if he was the owner. The team just came off two of the worst performances ever seen in the preseason before this home game, and nothing is expected of them this year. So that is why not many people were there. However if they do shock people this year and actually do well, then the stadium will start getting full again. Yes some people would still stay away because of Mike Brown, but it wouldn't be enough people to not fill up the stadium if the team actually did well.

OK. Since you have stated that you will attend some home games, you must beleive they can win

 

I am not the type of person who is going to say this team will suck and has not chance before the first game is even played, like most people in this area. I have stated before if Carson was here, and with this schedule that I thought they could be good. However with having a rookie QB who had no off season, it is hard to tell how it will work out. It all comes down to how Dalton plays IMO. So yes I do have a little part of me who believes maybe just maybe they could get off to a good start since it is an easy schedule to start with. There is some talent here, but young talent. So if they do get off to a good start, then who knows what could happen because a young team who has confidence can at least make things interesting.

 

So I will be going to their first home game of the year against the 49ers, and probably the Colts game. Now by the time I see the second game, we will see how they are doing. If they are off to a horrible start after those first 6 games, then I most likely would not be going to any other games after that point.

I am not the type of person who is going to say this team will suck and has not chance before the first game is even played, like most people in this area. I have stated before if Carson was here, and with this schedule that I thought they could be good. However with having a rookie QB who had no off season, it is hard to tell how it will work out. It all comes down to how Dalton plays IMO. So yes I do have a little part of me who believes maybe just maybe they could get off to a good start since it is an easy schedule to start with. There is some talent here, but young talent. So if they do get off to a good start, then who knows what could happen because a young team who has confidence can at least make things interesting.

 

So I will be going to their first home game of the year against the 49ers, and probably the Colts game. Now by the time I see the second game, we will see how they are doing. If they are off to a horrible start after those first 6 games, then I most likely would not be going to any other games after that point.

 

So does that make you a fair weather fan?

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So does that make you a fair weather fan?

 

Not at all. Every week I still would turn on my tv and watch them if they were on tv. Or the radio if they are not on tv. Your competely reaching at straws here man, and for no reason.

 

My point was how if the stadium is not full, it's not because people are tired of Brown so they are not coming. If it is not full it is because they don't believe the team will do well. Yeah you have some people who still wouldn't come no matter if they were winning or losing because of Brown. However if the team was winning or at least people thought they had a chance to do well before the year, then people would come. It wouldn't matter if Brown was the owner or not. So for people to say that the reason the stadium is not full is because of people being tired of Brown is not true. The stadium is not full because people don't believe they will be good. Just like the stadium was usually not full during the 90 or early 2000's. Just like from middle of 2003 up until last year, people believed the team had the potential to do well so people came and why their was the long sell out streak.

 

For me every year I basically go to two games. In 2005 and 2009 during playoff years, I went to only two games still. For me the reason why I only usually go to two games, is because I don't have the money to be going to every game. It makes sense if people dont' want to come if they don't think they will do well, because that is a lot of money to spend to watch a team they think will lose. Doesn't mean they are fair weather fans (even though their are plenty in this area, who you would have never known they were Bengal fans, unless they were winning.) Never said to be a true fan you have to be willing to spend money to go to the games, because some people don't have the money. It all gets back to what I originally said, which is if the team is bad people wont come, and if the team is good people will come. It was not a shot at people who don't come. It was just repsonding to how Hammertime's statement would be wrong for why it was so empty. It was so empty because most people thought the team would be terrible, so they didn't come. It wasn't because Mike Brown is the owner, so they chose not to come. If people thought the team would be good, then people will be there it wouldn't matter that Mike Brown was the owner.

Well in my case I do not go because they suck. And Mike Brown is the reason they suck. And I do not spend my money on things that suck.

Well in my case I do not go because they suck. And Mike Brown is the reason they suck. And I do not spend my money on things that suck.

 

Which I completely understand. However as much as people don't like Mike Brown, most people still would go if they were good. The only reason most people don't go is when they think they will suck, not because they don't want to go because they don't like Mike Brown.

115-206-1 since 1991... I can name at least 20 season ticket holders from last year that let their tickets go because of Brown.