He probably did tap...I do not care. I don't lose respect for him even if he tapped.

 

Awesome- as long as we agree on this point, we can agree to disagree on the rest...as I have already said. :thumb:

:lol: sometimes fighters try and tackle the ref after being rocked. Another reason not to think anything of this "tap".

 

Hahaha yep, never know what they're going to do once they take that canvas nap.

Whether or not I lose respect for a fighter is an opinion. I can't be wrong. You are welcome to respectfully disagree.

 

You are wrong on throwing in the towel- it is a FACT that the corner does that and not the fighter, period.

 

The ref stopped the Silva fight with Griffin; there was no tap. That was a straight up KO. Now, Forrest running out of the cage is a whole different matter, as is Tim Sylvia not tapping in a submission. I have been very clear that I do not like the idea of tapping due to strikes; we can discuss this but the other situations that you keep bringing up do not have a fighter tapping due to strikes, so if you want to equate these situation to Shogun tapping then you are going to have to explain a little more why they are similar in your mind. In my mind, the fights you have mentioned are as different as tapping due to submission and tapping due to strikes.

 

Based on the argument you gave of tapping because you were getting pummeled, Anderson Silva should have tapped to Chael Sonnen. I mean, he was getting pummeled, right? Brock should have tapped to Shane Carwin, too. Why fight for your championship? If you see some major adversity, you should just tap and live to fight another day, right?

 

Getting beat up is a part of this game. You will get hit hard and a lot and a guy will look like he has the upper hand. If the ref stops it, you can say you did everything you could and the other guy was better that night. There is no shame in that. If you tap to submission, you can say that you just got caught and go back to work on your submission defense. If you tap to strikes, you quit. You do not give yourself a chance to come back that night. You had a choice of giving your all or quitting when the going got tough and you chose to quit. I do not see it any other way (unless there is an injury of some sort, as I mentioned earlier).

 

Again, I do not expect everyone to agree with me. I just want to make sure we can at least agree on what we disagree on.

 

I've never argued that a fighter can throw in the towel. I argued that BJ made no argument to stop them, nor did he look the least bit upset that they did it. I doubt they threw it in without his knowledge, so to me, he quit willingly, and wisely.

 

And, didn't say Forrest "tapped". Just said he waved his arms as if to wave Silva off, basically saying I quit. It was the same thing Shogun did by tapping after the fight was stopped.

 

Sonnen landed a lot of strikes, but never once in that fight did Silva look like he was hurt. That's a major distinction in my mind. I felt like Silva could have won that fight at any time when it was standing. Granted, I didn't expect him to pull a triangle out late in round five. The punishment and damage inflicted in the BJ/GSP and Shogun/Jones fights was much more severe, and watching those fights you never had the feeling that BJ or Shogun could pull out a win with anything.

 

And, maybe by tapping when you're getting beat to death, you don't give yourself a "chance" that night, but you might live to fight another day.

 

Won't argue on the opinion statement. You're right.

I've never argued that a fighter can throw in the towel. I argued that BJ made no argument to stop them, nor did he look the least bit upset that they did it. I doubt they threw it in without his knowledge, so to me, he quit willingly, and wisely.

 

And, didn't say Forrest "tapped". Just said he waved his arms as if to wave Silva off, basically saying I quit. It was the same thing Shogun did by tapping after the fight was stopped.

 

Sonnen landed a lot of strikes, but never once in that fight did Silva look like he was hurt. That's a major distinction in my mind. I felt like Silva could have won that fight at any time when it was standing. Granted, I didn't expect him to pull a triangle out late in round five. The punishment and damage inflicted in the BJ/GSP and Shogun/Jones fights was much more severe, and watching those fights you never had the feeling that BJ or Shogun could pull out a win with anything.

 

And, maybe by tapping when you're getting beat to death, you don't give yourself a "chance" that night, but you might live to fight another day.

 

Won't argue on the opinion statement. You're right.

 

I disagree with you that the actions you identified in the afore mentioned fights with BJ and Forrest signify quitting- I just do not see it. Tapping signifies quitting. Do it to a submission, that is a part of the game. Do it to strikes- that equals no heart.

 

Looks like I am a man on an island- I'm okay with that on this issue, though.

I disagree with you that the actions you identified in the afore mentioned fights with BJ and Forrest signify quitting- I just do not see it. Tapping signifies quitting. Do it to a submission, that is a part of the game. Do it to strikes- that equals no heart.

 

Looks like I am a man on an island- I'm okay with that on this issue, though.

 

No man is an island. :lol:

 

You're right though. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I do apologize if I came off a little harsh on Post #37. :thumb:

If you lose respect for a fighter for tapping to strikes, then I ask have you ever been hit with 4 ounce gloves, with elbows, and forearms repeatedly or would you step into a cage and take the chance of it happening.

 

Its one thing to box, its one thing to wrestle it entirely another different animal to to do it like these guys do.

You are flat wrong about throwing in the towel- period. It is not quitting- the fighter has zero control over it. You can protest, you can yell and scream, but you do not control that- your corner does.

 

You can control whether or not you tap due to strikes- all you have to do is not do it. It is quitting in almost all circumstances, IMO.

 

And what of Spartacus who at first tapped to Crixus instead of being slain. Had he not tapped, he wouldn't have went on to become the greatest gladiator of all time. Duh! Winning!

No man is an island. :lol:

 

You're right though. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I do apologize if I came off a little harsh on Post #37. :thumb:

 

No worries 5wide- I respect your opinions and love the banter. :thumb:

I've fought in a boxing match (amateur) and I've trained in muay Thai kickboxing. I've been rocked, so I know how it feels. I do not know how it feels to he kneed and kicked ad elbowed and punched by John jones. I have been elbowed in the face, kicked in the head, punched in the face....

 

If you lose respect for a fighter for tapping to strikes, then I ask have you ever been hit with 4 ounce gloves, with elbows, and forearms repeatedly or would you step into a cage and take the chance of it happening.

 

Its one thing to box, its one thing to wrestle it entirely another different animal to to do it like these guys do.

 

I love it- I have 17 years of fight experience and guys question if I would understand what it is like to get hit or if I have the courage to step into a cage. :lol:

 

I opened the door, I should not have mentioned my fight experience on here. I apologize for doing this and now taking offense to you guys comments. I only mentioned my experiences to say that it probably clouds my judgement on the issue and to wonder if folks with similar experiences felt the same way.

 

Can we agree to refrain from asking if I would step into the cage or comparing 1 fight to my 73 and 17 years of training at it?

Actually, didn't GSP tap from strikes by Serra before the refs called the fight? That didn't seem to tarnish his legacy.

I love it- I have 17 years of fight experience and guys question if I would understand what it is like to get hit or if I have the courage to step into a cage. :lol:

 

I opened the door, I should not have mentioned my fight experience on here. I apologize for doing this and now taking offense to you guys comments. I only mentioned my experiences to say that it probably clouds my judgement on the issue and to wonder if folks with similar experiences felt the same way.

 

Can we agree to refrain from asking if I would step into the cage or comparing 1 fight to my 73 and 17 years of training at it?

 

 

I never questioned anything about you. I simply stated it is "a different animal" than boxing. I respect anyone who has competed in a combat sport at a high level.

 

There are rumors on the message boards that Rua had either a broke jaw or orbital.....does that change your view?

 

Have you competed in MMA?

I never questioned anything about you. I simply stated it is "a different animal" than boxing. I respect anyone who has competed in a combat sport at a high level.

 

There are rumors on the message boards that Rua had either a broke jaw or orbital.....does that change your view?

 

Have you competed in MMA?

 

I could definitely see the possibility of a broke orbital. Post fight his eye was looking very Josh Koscheckish.

I never questioned anything about you. I simply stated it is "a different animal" than boxing. I respect anyone who has competed in a combat sport at a high level.

 

There are rumors on the message boards that Rua had either a broke jaw or orbital.....does that change your view?

 

Have you competed in MMA?

 

I worked with guys on their boxing for two years about a decade ago and sparred with folks around the same time- no amateur or pro fights. I have been in the cage and been elbowed, kneed and whatever else folks have asked.

I never questioned anything about you. I simply stated it is "a different animal" than boxing. I respect anyone who has competed in a combat sport at a high level.

There are rumors on the message boards that Rua had either a broke jaw or orbital.....does that change your view?

 

Have you competed in MMA?

 

That would- that would be the injury scenario that I posed. I do not see where the orbital got smashed, but I could easily see a broken jaw happening from that knee at the end.

Actually, didn't GSP tap from strikes by Serra before the refs called the fight? That didn't seem to tarnish his legacy.

 

Yup.