It's hard to compare the basketball program at IU to the program at UC. Similar situations, but it's harder to get IU to where their fan base wants than it is to get UC to where they want to go. The Big East is a tougher conference, but I think being in that league opens up more recruiting opportunities than playing in the Big Ten does. IU has a heck of a prestigious program, but their program was a mess and the walls around Indiana have been torn down recruiting wise.

 

Well put; I definitely agree that the Big East is tougher and has more recruiting advantages over the Big 10 and other conferences, but it is weird seeing Indiana struggle the way they are. I believe that their recruiting barriers have been a big part of the problem as well.

It's hard to compare the basketball program at IU to the program at UC. Similar situations, but it's harder to get IU to where their fan base wants than it is to get UC to where they want to go. The Big East is a tougher conference, but I think being in that league opens up more recruiting opportunities than playing in the Big Ten does. IU has a heck of a prestigious program, but their program was a mess and the walls around Indiana have been torn down recruiting wise.

 

And I would say you are wrong on every point. The UC fan base had 14 years of NCAA Tournament bids under Huggs, has 2 National Championships in their history and produced one of the 3 greatest players of all time. They absolutely expect a very high level of success, and have been totally irrational about the rebuilding process since the day Mick was hired.

 

As far as recruiting IU has not struggled to bring in talent after that initial year where it was a rush just to fill as many spots as possible. 3 4 stars in year 2 and a boatload of talent going forward as Bench pointed out. Sure they are playing with fire on the way some of it is happening, but that's for a different thread. Look at the 11, 12, 13 and 14 classes and see they are having NO trouble recruiting in state. Compare that to recruiting in Ohio where there is about 10% of the elite level talent.

 

As far as the Big East opening more doors, sure once you have rebuilt the program. Is a kid going to pick rebuilding UC over any of the 8 elite programs in the league very often? Easy answer is no and I can provide plenty of names that made that choice in Mick's tenure. It starts with Kemba Walker and Hasheem Thabeet if you need a hint.

 

So IU has an easier conference to rebuild in. Has a much more fertile recruiting ground. Has a much more loyal fan base that continued to fund the program through the rough time. Had a proven high major coach take over with high major recruits already in his pipeline. And with all of that they are miles behind where UC was at the same stage of the rebuild...

And I would say you are wrong on every point. The UC fan base had 14 years of NCAA Tournament bids under Huggs, has 2 National Championships in their history and produced one of the 3 greatest players of all time. They absolutely expect a very high level of success, and have been totally irrational about the rebuilding process since the day Mick was hired.

 

As far as recruiting IU has not struggled to bring in talent after that initial year where it was a rush just to fill as many spots as possible. 3 4 stars in year 2 and a boatload of talent going forward as Bench pointed out. Sure they are playing with fire on the way some of it is happening, but that's for a different thread. Look at the 11, 12, 13 and 14 classes and see they are having NO trouble recruiting in state. Compare that to recruiting in Ohio where there is about 10% of the elite level talent.

 

As far as the Big East opening more doors, sure once you have rebuilt the program. Is a kid going to pick rebuilding UC over any of the 8 elite programs in the league very often? Easy answer is no and I can provide plenty of names that made that choice in Mick's tenure. It starts with Kemba Walker and Hasheem Thabeet if you need a hint.

 

So IU has an easier conference to rebuild in. Has a much more fertile recruiting ground. Has a much more loyal fan base that continued to fund the program through the rough time. Had a proven high major coach take over with high major recruits already in his pipeline. And with all of that they are miles behind where UC was at the same stage of the rebuild...

 

I do agree that Indiana has a lot more choices to recruit from than Ohio does. You mentioned the difference in recruiting between Cincinnati being in the rebuilding stage and other Big East schools. Even though Crean had a good amount of experience from coaching at Marquette, there was still an effect on recruiting for them with all that had been done too. It isn't like their recruiting is where it was during the time that Knight was still there.

I do agree that Indiana has a lot more choices to recruit from than Ohio does. You mentioned the difference in recruiting between Cincinnati being in the rebuilding stage and other Big East schools. Even though Crean had a good amount of experience from coaching at Marquette, there was still an effect on recruiting for them with all that had been done too. It isn't like their recruiting is where it was during the time that Knight was still there.

 

I'm not saying it was, simply saying it was a better situation at IU when comparing the two. Better facilities, amazing practice facility in the works, loaded in state talent base, packed house even though the team was horrible. All things UC didn't, and still doesn't, have...

GT you're not going to compare Cincinnati's program to IU's are you? 5 of UC's 6 Final Four appearances came in a span of 5 years ('59-'63). IU has almost as many titles (5) as UC does Final Four appearances. IU has the 5th most appearances in the NCAA tourney of all college teams, 6th most tourney victories. UC has a very, very nice basketball tradition but I don't think their in IU's tier when it comes to basketball programs. To me, you have UCLA, UK, Duke, UNC and Kansas in the first tier of programs, and I would put IU in the 2nd tier. UC would probably fall in tier 3 or 4 if I'm doing the rankings and that's not a bad thing.

 

IU's fall from grace got alot more publicity, and I think that had a huge part to play in their rebuilding efforts. They've got some talented kids to come in, but it's tough to build a program from scratch as you well know as a UC fan the last few years. UC got lucky to rebound so quickly, I think they would be more of the exception rather than the rule. 3 or 4 years ago, this is about where I expected IU to be right now I'm not going to lie. I thought it would take at least 5 years to fix their mess. To me, UC is ahead of schedule and IU is on schedule. JMO

I'm not saying it was, simply saying it was a better situation at IU when comparing the two. Better facilities, amazing practice facility in the works, loaded in state talent base, packed house even though the team was horrible. All things UC didn't, and still doesn't, have...

 

But wouldn't you say that most of the really good instate players left and were going to leave the mess at IU the last few years? I would also say that I think UC being more of a city atmosphere type school helps them recruit Big-East type players.

I'm saying there is a high expectation from the fan base, which is what you alluded to...

I'm saying there is a high expectation from the fan base, which is what you alluded to...

 

Well I would be the first to admit, you would know alot more about that then I would :thumb:.

But wouldn't you say that most of the really good instate players left and were going to leave the mess at IU the last few years? I would also say that I think UC being more of a city atmosphere type school helps them recruit Big-East type players.

 

It wasn't ideal, but there is an entire state full of kids that grow up dreaming of playing for IU, so there were fewer hurdles to clear along the way. That and hiring the son of the guy that runs Indiana Elite to be the video cord. got things back on track in state in rapid fashion...

Is Crean shown the door at the end of the season?

Is Crean shown the door at the end of the season?

 

No, but the heat is starting to turn up just a little. Next year is a big one. Really need to get to the middle of the pack in conference play...

I think Crean is a good coach, I think his teams play hard and that he runs good stuff.

With that being said, his first couple of years he really didn't get the athletic type kids he needs to turn things around, and the guards he has are not real solid.

They play really hard but just cannot matchup athlete for athlete with most Big 10 teams.

Hulls is a nice role player but is playing a lot of point. Rivers is a backup at best. Verdell Jones is average at best. Watford and Creek are two solid players but they both have missed time because of injuries, especially Creek last year.

They filled their inside positions with hard nosed kids but neither are good enough to go against the JaJuan Johnson's of the world.

Next year will be key for IU. They have made some progress...they are not getting hammered by teams like they were a year ago...but I thought they would be farther along than they are.

Is Crean shown the door at the end of the season?

 

I don't think so.

Is Crean shown the door at the end of the season?

 

Not yet, but the burner will be on. Next year, they need to get out of the bottom end of the Big 10.

No, but the heat is starting to turn up just a little. Next year is a big one. Really need to get to the middle of the pack in conference play...

 

I agree, finishing in the middle or better next season is likely a must.