This sounds similar to how slaves have been viewed throughout history. Is it so arrogant to think that cetaceans might want to be free of captivity, have a desire to not be slaughtered, and free from cruelty?

 

How do you know that the cetaceans don't enjoy captivity? They don't have to put themselves in harms way. They don't have to exert any energy to find food. They receive medical care. Sounds to me they are treated better than many of "us humans". What's next? Free all the goldfish?

• First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition
  

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

• Second Amendment – Militia (United States), Sovereign state, Right to keep and bear arms.
  

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. ^[7]

• Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.
  

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

• Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
  

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

• Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.
  

No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

• Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel
  

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

• Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.
  

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

• Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.
  

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

• Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
  

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

• Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.
  

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

(From Wikipedia)

If they were truly sentient to the level that we are then there likely would have been an attempt to communicate with us or illustrate that they are not happy with us.

There is evidence that they communicate effectively with each other, and any dolphin trainer will tell you that they communicate with them in every way that they are physically capable. The fact that they haven't organized a swim-in, boycotted smelt, or written a letter to congress doesn't mean they aren't intelligent and have no sense of their own existence.

Ants and bees communicate with each other, too.

Ants and bees communicate with each other, too.

 

Well, now you've gone and done it. There goes the honey industry. Free those bees, Free those bees.

 

 

 

Seriously, are we that bored in the U.S. that we are arguing the merits of whether dolphins deserve human rights? Heck, Ace Ventura would disagree, spank you very much.

Well, now you've gone and done it. There goes the honey industry. Free those bees, Free those bees.

 

 

 

Seriously, are we that bored in the U.S. that we are arguing the merits of whether dolphins deserve human rights? Heck, Ace Ventura would disagree.

 

I want my dog to have human rights. He's just 2 opposoble thumbs away from humanity.

As soon as a Cetacean can draft their own Bill of Rights, I'll be all for granting their rights. Until then, don't get caught in the net.

Considering all the sources you cited are from "treehugger.com" I feel as though they are idealistically biased.

 

 

My point is thus:

 

If they were truly sentient to the level that we are then there likely would have been an attempt to communicate with us or illustrate that they are not happy with us. As it is there is very little outside of the social organization of dolphins that indicates a true sentience.

 

Now the day they seem to exhibit some sort of organized resistance/response to humanity then I will take notice. Until then they are clever animals with similar genetic traits, much like apes and monkeys.

I fully agree with the first part but I am just too busy (lazy) to look up anything else.

 

My problem lies with the line of thought that seems to be exhibited where if they aren't expressing resistance then all is well. When many countries were "discovered" the native people were viewed as savages and not on the same level of humanity as the "discovering people" are. It seems that throughout human history we have made repeated mistakes on the level of humanity attributed to certain groups. Furthermore, could it be that cetaceans are just pacifists? If all you want is resistance---I hear the squirrels in N. Ky are quite the resistant and organized bunch.

 

And as I said in my first post, I find this subject particularly fascintating, not saying I agree or disagree---just something interesting to talk about while at work.

I want my dog to have human rights. He's just 2 opposoble thumbs away from humanity.

There is something I can fully support!

 

Simba can open doors now, maybe he is already there!

How do you know that the cetaceans don't enjoy captivity? They don't have to put themselves in harms way. They don't have to exert any energy to find food. They receive medical care. Sounds to me they are treated better than many of "us humans". What's next? Free all the goldfish?

If I took you out of your home, locked you away from your friends and family---BUT I feed you and provided you medical care then that would be ok?

If I took you out of your home, locked you away from your friends and family---BUT I feed you and provided you medical care then that would be ok?

A. I'd say some would probably feel that is an upgrade from their existence.

B. I AM human (although that could be argued by some occasionally) yet a dolphin is NOT.

 

And finally, how do you know that dolphins feel and experience the same emotions as humans? You don't. Neither do the scientists, plain and simple. For example, I could as easily argue with as much validity as you argue your point that if Dan the dolphin were able to communicate intelligently to convey his feelings perhaps he might say this to his mates who are out there in the mean cutthroat ocean waters:

 

"You know guys, I was fearful of being captured and put behind those walls at dolphin world, but now that I'm there, you guys are really missing out. Heck, I don't have to fight over food. Got to breed this fine honey last month and didn't even have to court her or fight Roger the shark in the process. And get this, last fall I had a nasty infection right around my blowhole, and this doctor fixed me right up with a little antibiotic ointment. I get to swim with the folks here in this pool, and man, this is the life of Riley,,,,suckers!!!"

"Do you know him? Does he call you at home?"

Ants and bees communicate with each other, too.

But make for a much less entertaining show. I mean, who wants to see a guy ski on two ants, or watch a bee jump through a tiny hoop?

"Do you know him? Does he call you at home?"

 

Yep, went to the hall of fame induction ceremony.

If we truly exercise our humanity, should we have any reason to worry about their's?