sFC those programs have a different kind of athlete man. If BK gets them to a big bowl game we'll see it. IF USC is ready to roll this season we'll see it. Notre Dame doesn't have the horses that programs like UF or Ohio State do, especially on defense. Virtually any player that goes to one of those programs is apt to get drafted and possibly very high. How many Notre Dame defensive players have been drafted this decade? That can't all be because of poor coaching, my goodness look at how many players were drafted under Bowden at Clemson.

Future Coach-I am with you. I can't figure out if Cats likes ND or not, but he sure is defensive of Weis and the Irish failures of the past coaches era. Charlie failed at some aspect-whether it was recruiting, or coaching 'em up-when you keep getting beat by the Naval Academy-that is a no-no, and hence Weis was shown the door.

 

I'm indifferent on ND. I do like Weis, but I agree it was time for him to go. I just think it's crazy for people to act like he has no idea about football. He had alot of success in the NFL and alot of success in his first two years. His middle 2 years need to be discounted because he was not playing with anything near a full deck. Last year there is no excuse obviously, but I don't know what they were expecting that team to do anyways.

I'm indifferent on ND. I do like Weis, but I agree it was time for him to go. I just think it's crazy for people to act like he has no idea about football. He had alot of success in the NFL and alot of success in his first two years. His middle 2 years need to be discounted because he was not playing with anything near a full deck. Last year there is no excuse obviously, but I don't know what they were expecting that team to do anyways.

They were not able to close games they should have won and he lost to Navy again and to USC in one of their weaker seasons of the decade. It is pretty obvious Weis had a difficult time developing any of his talent. The guy knows a lot about football, but that is only half the battle of being a successful head coach at the collegiate level. Weis felt he could schematically come in and win games. To some degree he could when he had physically and mentally prepared guys like Quinn. But he greatly lacked any developmental skills, especially on the offensive and defensive lines, and it showed. He is an offensive coordinator. Just like Romeo Crennell is a defensive coordinator, not a head coach.

They were not able to close games they should have won and he lost to Navy again and to USC in one of their weaker seasons of the decade. It is pretty obvious Weis had a difficult time developing any of his talent. The guy knows a lot about football, but that is only half the battle of being a successful head coach at the collegiate level. Weis felt he could schematically come in and win games. To some degree he could when he had physically and mentally prepared guys like Quinn. But he greatly lacked any developmental skills, especially on the offensive and defensive lines, and it showed. He is an offensive coordinator. Just like Romeo Crennell is a defensive coordinator, not a head coach.

 

Just name me 10 guys who are probable NFL players on Notre Dame's roster right now.

And FC I'm not saying a coach doesn't make a huge difference. But as the bowls have shown there is a big difference in teams like Notre Dame having a good season and beating the big boys. No matter who the coach is Notre Dame does not have the athletes to beat the Elite teams on a consistent basis when all things are equal coaching wise IMO. There are no Joe Haden's, Rolando McClains, or Carlos Dunlaps on Notre Dames team. Have the last few bowl seasons not taught you that the college game is speed? Ohio State learned the hard way that it's not about the rankings of the guy you recruit it's about the actual substance. Notre Dame doesn't have that kind of speed all over their team and never will because of location and admission standards.

Just name me 10 guys who are probable NFL players on Notre Dame's roster right now.

That is virtually an impossible question to answer without seeing how any of the guys play. That is like saying name 10 of the main 22 position players that will play on Sunday.

You would assume kids like Dayne Crist, Shaquelle Evans, Jonas Gray, and Cierre Wood would fit that profile despite logging just a few minutes.

 

For sure guys you have that played significant minutes this season are Floyd, Rudolph, Claussen, Tate, T'Aeo (sp?), Eric Olsen, and Sam Young. That is 7 of 22 starters and I could be missing a name or two (I think Armando Allen could develop nicely in the NFL). That is pretty solid.

That is virtually an impossible question to answer without seeing how any of the guys play. That is like saying name 10 of the main 22 position players that will play on Sunday.

You would assume kids like Dayne Crist, Shaquelle Evans, Jonas Gray, and Cierre Wood would fit that profile despite logging just a few minutes.

 

For sure guys you have that played significant minutes this season are Floyd, Rudolph, Claussen, Tate, T'Aeo (sp?), Eric Olsen, and Sam Young. That is 7 of 22 starters and I could be missing a name or two (I think Armando Allen could develop nicely in the NFL). That is pretty solid.

 

Yeah it is pretty solid until you consider how many players on teams like Florida or Bama will go pro. I can't believe we're having this conversation. I can't see how anyone could honestly say Notre Dame has as much talent on there roster as Alabama does.:idunno:

Yeah it is pretty solid until you consider how many players on teams like Florida or Bama will go pro. I can't believe we're having this conversation. I can't see how anyone could honestly say Notre Dame has as much talent on there roster as Alabama does.:idunno:

Unless you are having a fictional argument with a poster, I do not know who said that either I think you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Notre Dame does not have the elite of the elite talent, but they had enough last season to be more successful than they were. See Matt Doherty.

Yeah it is pretty solid until you consider how many players on teams like Florida or Bama will go pro. I can't believe we're having this conversation. I can't see how anyone could honestly say Notre Dame has as much talent on there roster as Alabama does.:idunno:

 

I am huge ND fan, and I agree 100% ND does not have top 15 talent. However, they do have top 20 - 25 talent. I don't expect Kelly to go 10-2 or even 9-3, but I do expect an 8 -4 type season, with 2 of the 4 losses being within 10 points. Lack of comparable talent is not an excuse to lose to UCONN, Navy, Stanford and a woeful Michigan team. Quite honestly the only team on the schedule last year that has more "talent" was USC, and as everyone agrees even that was way down from years past.

 

I was a fan of CW, I really wish he had been successful. I think there is enough talent in the class to be a top 20 type team. I know they had more talent than UC, Boise St etc. Hopefully Kelly can draw that talent out, and get ND back into the top 20, as a starting point.

Unless you are having a fictional argument with a poster, I do not know who said that either I think you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Notre Dame does not have the elite of the elite talent, but they had enough last season to be more successful than they were. See Matt Doherty.

 

I have agreed with that, see FC's long two page essays as to whom I'm arguing with. Does ND have talent? Sure. But, it's far from what other big time teams have.

I am huge ND fan, and I agree 100% ND does not have top 15 talent. However, they do have top 20 - 25 talent. I don't expect Kelly to go 10-2 or even 9-3, but I do expect an 8 -4 type season, with 2 of the 4 losses being within 10 points. Lack of comparable talent is not an excuse to lose to UCONN, Navy, Stanford and a woeful Michigan team. Quite honestly the only team on the schedule last year that has more "talent" was USC, and as everyone agrees even that was way down from years past.

 

I was a fan of CW, I really wish he had been successful. I think there is enough talent in the class to be a top 20 type team. I know they had more talent than UC, Boise St etc. Hopefully Kelly can draw that talent out, and get ND back into the top 20, as a starting point.

 

I can agree with all of that. But I guess if FC were a ND fan, only top 5 finishes would be acceptable since they are on the same level as say Florida talent wise.:thumb:

Just name me 10 guys who are probable NFL players on Notre Dame's roster right now.

 

Your missing the whole point. You keep looking at things with how they are right now, and well since there isn't many guys that we would say would make the NFL right now, you say there is not much talent. My whole point that I have been trying to make, is that might have been different if there had been a coach who was better at developing players. Weis had brought in top 5 and top 10 classes. So that shows that the guys who he brought in were definitely some of the more talented guys in the country coming out of high school. The reason why we don't say there are many NFL guys on the team, is because he failed at coaching up those talented players. Those other programs you mentioned recruit great, and also coach up those guys better. Weis just did a good job recruiting, and with X and O's not with the developing part. That is the whole point I been trying to make here. It seems like other people seem to agree with me on that part.

 

BK might not be the guy who will get things turned around. We will have to wait and see. However IMO he will do a better job at coaching up the talent that is at Notre Dame right now.

Edit.

I have agreed with that, see FC's long two page essays as to whom I'm arguing with. Does ND have talent? Sure. But, it's far from what other big time teams have.

 

Yes it is far from the other big time teams NOW. Coming out of high school, it was not as far when it came to the players. Only difference is those guys went to schools who coached them up even more, while the guys who went to Notre Dame had a coach who was not good at coaching them up even more.

 

Coming out of high school, they were close on talent. By the time they are done with college, you are right it is not even close. Those guys got better, while the Notre Dame guys didn't. That is my whole point about all this. Have a coach who can also coach them up and develop them, then those talented players would still be as talented and known.

Your missing the whole point. You keep looking at things with how they are right now, and well since there isn't many guys that we would say would make the NFL right now, you say there is not much talent. My whole point that I have been trying to make, is that might have been different if there had been a coach who was better at developing players. Weis had brought in top 5 and top 10 classes. So that shows that the guys who he brought in were definitely some of the more talented guys in the country coming out of high school. The reason why we don't say there are many NFL guys on the team, is because he failed at coaching up those talented players. Those other programs you mentioned recruit great, and also coach up those guys better. Weis just did a good job recruiting, and with X and O's not with the developing part. That is the whole point I been trying to make here. It seems like other people seem to agree with me on that part.

 

BK might not be the guy who will get things turned around. We will have to wait and see. However IMO he will do a better job at coaching up the talent that is at Notre Dame right now.

 

Yes it is far from the other big time teams NOW. Coming out of high school, it was not as far when it came to the players. Only difference is those guys went to schools who coached them up even more, while the guys who went to Notre Dame had a coach who was not good at coaching them up even more.

 

Coming out of high school, they were close on talent. By the time they are done with college, you are right it is not even close. Those guys got better, while the Notre Dame guys didn't. That is my whole point about all this. Have a coach who can also coach them up and develop them, then those talented players would still be as talented and known.

 

FutureCoach I'm done arguing with you. No one in their right mind would think that the caliber of player ND has brought in the last 5 years is equal to that of UF, Bama, OSU, USC or other teams like that.

 

Could a better coach get more out of them? No doubt. But, all things equal Florida has infinitely better players than ND has. Don't see too many instant impact freshman on the national level at Notre Dame. Yeah I forgot they have guys just like Tebow and Percy Harvin or Jeff Demps as freshmen. Those kind of guys would shine no matter who the coach was considering true freshman do not even have a full year in the system.

 

This is a ridiculous argument and no one in the world is going to agree with you that Notre Dame has the same amount of talent as the programs mentioned. They don't, and I don't care what the recruiting rankings say, common sense tells me differently. There are better coaches than Weis and they could have done more with the talent they had last year, but the fact of the matter is that team was not championship material no matter who coached it. I'm done with this irrational conversation.