I still think leadership is much more of a factor than simply having experience. It is, however, hard to have one without the other and that is at the core of the debate. Sheer superior talent can win you a lot of regular season games. It doesn't seem to get you a title without an established leader that has the experience needed...

I still think leadership is much more of a factor than simply having experience. It is, however, hard to have one without the other and that is at the core of the debate. Sheer superior talent can win you a lot of regular season games. It doesn't seem to get you a title without an established leader that has the experience needed...

 

You said what I was trying to much better...thank you. I also think there is something to be said for the "i've spend 3 or 4 years here playing my butt off and i'll not be denied tonight". The longer you are there, the more buy in you have and care for the team, city, and fanbase. Before I get slammed...let me say that I do think Wall and Cuz were special, but there is something to be said for the 3 and 4 year guys.

This argument is ridiculous, you get the best players you can. 1 and done or otherwise. The numbers are obviously skewed because of the amount of great high schoolers who went straight to the league from Garnet to Howard. If some of those guys would have spent 1 year in school there would be a few more 1 and doners with rings.

 

If UK would have won the title would Digger and the likes be talking about 1 and done as the way to go? 35 wins are obviously not enough to be deemed a success

 

Totally agree, and more so as its being applied to UK & Calipari?? Kentucky hasn't dealt in "one & done's" before, and Cal has had exactly two previously; but the media's acting like it's an every year happening for both???

 

Cal simply had to rebuild a program that was down & out, and was fortunate enough to land some serious talent at the last minute. An early guess would have been 1 or 2 o&d's at most this year, but it seems to be turning out otherwise. Guessing we may see a few more, especially next year; until he has a chance to build the base of the program a little more?

 

Name me a coach in America that wouldn't have taken Cousins & Wall even if they stated they were one & out??

Totally agree, and more so as its being applied to UK & Calipari?? Kentucky hasn't dealt in "one & done's" before, and Cal has had exactly two previously; but the media's acting like it's an every year happening for both???

 

Cal simply had to rebuild a program that was down & out, and was fortunate enough to land some serious talent at the last minute. An early guess would have been 1 or 2 o&d's at most this year, but it seems to be turning out otherwise. Guessing we may see a few more, especially next year; until he has a chance to build the base of the program a little more?

 

Name me a coach in America that wouldn't have taken Cousins & Wall even if they stated they were one & out??

 

That's what I'm thinking. People need to realize that it was going to be at least 2011-2012 season before Cal had one of his teams here and now it may be a season longer. Then there's going to be depth all over mixed in with some young super star talent. His team at Memphis should have and could have won the Title, and I would expect most of his teams at UK will be in that model in the future.

Totally agree, and more so as its being applied to UK & Calipari?? Kentucky hasn't dealt in "one & done's" before, and Cal has had exactly two previously; but the media's acting like it's an every year happening for both???

 

Cal simply had to rebuild a program that was down & out, and was fortunate enough to land some serious talent at the last minute. An early guess would have been 1 or 2 o&d's at most this year, but it seems to be turning out otherwise. Guessing we may see a few more, especially next year; until he has a chance to build the base of the program a little more?

 

Name me a coach in America that wouldn't have taken Cousins & Wall even if they stated they were one & out??

 

He has had 4 actually. I'm not saying he shouldn't have recruited those guys, i'm just saying i don't think they win a title until they have some Jr and Sr leadership...of quality players.

He has had 4 actually. I'm not saying he shouldn't have recruited those guys, i'm just saying i don't think they win a title until they have some Jr and Sr leadership...of quality players.

 

I think Calipari would agree with your premise, but Billy G didn't exactly leave him loaded; and personally I would rather see a one & done 35-3, Elite Eight team, than a couple of rebuilding NIT squads??

I think Calipari would agree with your premise, but Billy G didn't exactly leave him loaded; and personally I would rather see a one & done 35-3, Elite Eight team, than a couple of rebuilding NIT squads??

 

That's something Bob Knight and Digger fail to acknowledge as well. This team was horrible last year and without the "one and dones" would have been even worse this year. My goodness this is just one year and Cal was playing with very little returning talent.

I think Calipari would agree with your premise, but Billy G didn't exactly leave him loaded; and personally I would rather see a one & done 35-3, Elite Eight team, than a couple of rebuilding NIT squads??

 

Not disagreeing at all. I'm just saying it will take a few years longer than expected with 4 one and dones this year and what looks like 3 or 4 more next year if we get all the recruits Cal wants. Not sure when we get the guys coming back. I'm worried about our future.

I love how the one and done debate is now strictly a UK issue on here. I started it after the title game in response to the leadership shown by both teams in propelling them to that stage, and it's taken instantly as a shot at UK and Cal. Hilarious...

I love how the one and done debate is now strictly a UK issue on here. I started it after the title game in response to the leadership shown by both teams in propelling them to that stage, and it's taken instantly as a shot at UK and Cal. Hilarious...

 

I think it's because Digger specifically mentioned them last night and Cal is thought to be the "PG whisperer".

Not disagreeing at all. I'm just saying it will take a few years longer than expected with 4 one and dones this year and what looks like 3 or 4 more next year if we get all the recruits Cal wants. Not sure when we get the guys coming back. I'm worried about our future.

 

I'm not sure anyone knows what next year holds, with the NBA potentially looking at a holdout, and possible rule changes concerning HS seniors? I'll admit I'm one that's stunned that Orton, Dodson, and even Bledsoe (less shocked) are potential 1st rounders THIS YEAR????

Here is where I do think this works with the UK situation this year. If Patterson had not been hurt in March of his FR year and then in the NIT the next year, he just might have been able to fill the leadership void UK was missing. If this is going to turn into a UK thread I'll say the one guy that should have filled the leadership void played in as many tournament games as the freshman...

I think it's because Digger specifically mentioned them last night and Cal is thought to be the "PG whisperer".

 

Digger's been an overt Kentucky hater since he's gotten into broadcasting!! As the old saying goes "those that can coach, coach--those who can't, announce"!!

I still think leadership is much more of a factor than simply having experience. It is, however, hard to have one without the other and that is at the core of the debate. Sheer superior talent can win you a lot of regular season games. It doesn't seem to get you a title without an established leader that has the experience needed...

 

It helps to have kids that have been through the wars. For UK, I thought John Wall did a great job this year and what people will tell you is that he is a leader and it is one of his strongest attributes.

However, he was a freshman, and the one guy you would think would be a leader was Patrick Patterson, but for all of his positive traits and he seems to be a upstanding citizen, he was not a leader and has usually been one to defer to others. They needed him to step up when things were heading south in the tourney, and he could not provide it.

I love how the one and done debate is now strictly a UK issue on here. I started it after the title game in response to the leadership shown by both teams in propelling them to that stage, and it's taken instantly as a shot at UK and Cal. Hilarious...

 

It generally is a shot at Cal because of the one and done kids they have.

Bottom line, Cal doesn't have many fans out there. I had a running conversation with one of the best college bball writers out there and he said that Cal is not well liked and will take shots, when most are unwarranted.

Digger was going after the issue and Knight chimed in.

The reason I think it morphs into a UK debate is because they are likely to lose 4 frosh to the NBA and didn't make the Final Four.