:lol: OK you got me.

 

Mike Brown cares about one thing, and one thing only.......and that's money. He knows he doesn't need to put a superbowl contender on the field to do that. All he has to do is make sure that everyone in Cincinnati is drinking the orange koolaid come August. Since he's taken over the team, they've been to the playoffs twice, and they have a winning percentage under 40. If he truly wanted a championship, he'd spend some money on some scouts and a GM.

And that's the fatal flaw in your logic. Mike Brown doesn't expect to win anything. Are we really still having this debate??? :idunno:

 

:thumb: Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

They have a model to try to take players with a bad off the field past and get them for cheap. They feel like the players are undervalued because of their off the field trouble. A lot of people on here defend them for that philosophy. I've tried to think and haven't been able too. What franchise in Pro Football has been successful doing this? The NFL is such a copycat league that you would think common sense would say look at other smaller market teams and follow their lead? Are there any teams that have year after year gone after low character guys to build their franchise and been successful year in year out?

 

Some Bengals fans are the most optimistic in the league. They don't see that it is a never ending cycle. Sure they have drafted well but eventually those guys are going to need new deals and the Bengals will not pay. They get what they pay for, like I said a few days ago they are the Goodwill of the NFL.

 

I think the Bengals have done a lot of the same things oter smaller market teams have done. Like the other smaller market teams, they have tried to build through the draft and they have done that. Most of their core guys on that good defense are guys they drafted. On the offensive line, it will be mostly guys they drafted. The QB, and best WR is guys they have drafted. So most of their main guys have been through the draft, so they have built through the draft. The only thing different they do is that they try to fill in the missing pieces they have left with the guys you mentioned. If it works though then great, however I think its pretty obvious that they still mainly focus on building through the draft.

 

Two concerns I'd have:

 

1. Does it matter if you've drafted well if you're not willing to spend the bucks to keep the team intact?

2. I seriously doubt Bryant, Pacman, Matt Jones, or T.O. are the final piece the Bengals have been missing for the last 20 years. Actually looks like no one else wanted any of them that bad.

:thumb: Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

 

 

Some Bengals fans are the most optimistic in the league. They don't see that it is a never ending cycle. Sure they have drafted well but eventually those guys are going to need new deals and the Bengals will not pay. They get what they pay for, like I said a few days ago they are the Goodwill of the NFL.

 

 

 

Two concerns I'd have:

 

1. Does it matter if you've drafted well if you're not willing to spend the bucks to keep the team intact?

2. I seriously doubt Bryant, Pacman, Matt Jones, or T.O. are the final piece the Bengals have been missing for the last 20 years. Actually looks like no one else wanted any of them that bad.

 

Question you talk about them not keeping the teams intact with the guys they draft? What are you talking about? Keeping the guys on the team, are the only guys they usually end up spending actual money on. How many of their own guys who were good have they just let walk away? That is one thing they have done pretty good of through the years is keeping their own. They actually probably one of the best in the league at that, and have been good at extending players contracts before they even get to the last year. Thats a pretty poor argument on this one. Yeah they don't spend money to get free agents, but they do a good job at trying to keep their own. Shoot if I remember correctly I think I heard that the Bengals offered the same contract to TJ that Seattle did, but he just chose to go to Seattle.

Question you talk about them not keeping the teams intact with the guys they draft? What are you talking about? Keeping the guys on the team, are the only guys they usually end up spending actual money on. How many of their own guys who were good have they just let walk away? That is one thing they have done pretty good of through the years is keeping their own. They actually probably one of the best in the league at that, and have been good at extending players contracts before they even get to the last year. Thats a pretty poor argument on this one. Yeah they don't spend money to get free agents, but they do a good job at trying to keep their own. Shoot if I remember correctly I think I heard that the Bengals offered the same contract to TJ that Seattle did, but he just chose to go to Seattle.

 

In all fairness FC, the Bengals haven't always drafted well. It's a relatively new trend for them. If the young guys continue to get better their price tag will get to expensive for the Bengals. So since we don't know what they will do since they haven't been in this position lately, I'll go with common sense and state that Brown will get cheap in the future.

So, they're batting about .100 over the past 20 years. Fact remains that the "Bengals Model" (or, more appropriately, the "Mike Brown Model") is not designed for long-term success.

 

Still, you've got to ask yourself, based on the history of the Mike Brown Era, is last year and 2005 more of a fluke than an actual "model" working?

 

I really wish people would stop using the last 20 years in their arguments. You have to admit that since Marvin has got here, they have actually done a better job with things. They really have only had one horrible year, since he has been here and that was 2008. They had some bad luck with some draft picks in that 2005 draft, which really set them back! If that draft class stayed intact, they probably would have made the playoffs more than just those two times IMO.

 

I know Mike Brown has been a HORRIBLE OWNER, and just completely tore down this franchise especially in the 90's. Yet to many people let that memory cloud their thoughts to how things are now. This franchise has not been that bad since 2003. They had a couple of years where they just barely missed the playoffs since then. So what they are doing, is not completely horrible anymore. Yes they still won't go out and make a blockbuster trade or anything like that. However they have done a good job at signing guys for their needs, and even Bryant was a good signing. He was the best option out of the free agent receivers. So they have actually tried to improve. Yes they also try with some of these guys with a past, but most of the deals with those guys have been low risk, high reward for them. Yeah they can still do a better job with things, but like it or not people they have actually done a better job with things. Have to stop focusing on the past, and just look at today.

In all fairness FC, the Bengals haven't always drafted well. It's a relatively new trend for them. If the young guys continue to get better their price tag will get to expensive for the Bengals. So since we don't know what they will do since they haven't been in this position lately, I'll go with common sense and state that Brown will get cheap in the future.

 

In the 2000's the Bengals have done a better job with it. Shoot even when Dick Lebeau was here, he had a draft class that ended up being huge parts to the 2005 playoff team. Yes they still have their bust, just like every team has. They have done a real good job at finding talent at round after the 1st round. Its kind of weird, but most of their mistakes over the years seem to come with the 1st round picks. Draft picks have been the reason for why since 2003 they have been a team that really has been competiting for the playoffs every year except 2008.

In the 2000's the Bengals have done a better job with it. Shoot even when Dick Lebeau was here, he had a draft class that ended up being huge parts to the 2005 playoff team. Yes they still have their bust, just like every team has. They have done a real good job at finding talent at round after the 1st round. Its kind of weird, but most of their mistakes over the years seem to come with the 1st round picks. Draft picks have been the reason for why since 2003 they have been a team that really has been competiting for the playoffs every year except 2008.

 

True but the Bengals do not look like a contender to me right now. The guys they've drafted would have to continue to improve and improve a tremendous amount. If that happens they are going to command alot of money and I don't see the Bengals paying it. Brown is cheap and there's no way around it. I don't think Cincy will ever win a Super Bowl or even get there with him.

I really wish people would stop using the last 20 years in their arguments. You have to admit that since Marvin has got here, they have actually done a better job with things. They really have only had one horrible year, since he has been here and that was 2008. They had some bad luck with some draft picks in that 2005 draft, which really set them back! If that draft class stayed intact, they probably would have made the playoffs more than just those two times IMO.

 

I know Mike Brown has been a HORRIBLE OWNER, and just completely tore down this franchise especially in the 90's. Yet to many people let that memory cloud their thoughts to how things are now. This franchise has not been that bad since 2003. They had a couple of years where they just barely missed the playoffs since then. So what they are doing, is not completely horrible anymore. Yes they still won't go out and make a blockbuster trade or anything like that. However they have done a good job at signing guys for their needs, and even Bryant was a good signing. He was the best option out of the free agent receivers. So they have actually tried to improve. Yes they also try with some of these guys with a past, but most of the deals with those guys have been low risk, high reward for them. Yeah they can still do a better job with things, but like it or not people they have actually done a better job with things. Have to stop focusing on the past, and just look at today.

 

It's kind of hard to build a Super Bowl team really slowly because people want to get paid and leave for greener pastures. In the NFL today it takes a combination of drafting well, signing FA's and developing young players. Even if the Bengals do two of those things they obviously fail (compared to other teams) in one department in general.

True but the Bengals do not look like a contender to me right now. The guys they've drafted would have to continue to improve and improve a tremendous amount. If that happens they are going to command alot of money and I don't see the Bengals paying it. Brown is cheap and there's no way around it. I don't think Cincy will ever win a Super Bowl or even get there with him.

 

Why not? I asked you a question before, what good players or even decent players have have the Bengals just let walk that they have drafted? The only one you could probably come up with is Eric Steinbach, and that was only because they choose to give their two tackles big contracts. Which at the time was a smart decision, and had them spending money. They couldn't afford to keep him to with the salary cap. Other than that, they have done a great job at keeping their own. So you don't have much to back up your argument on that.

 

Now why don't you see them as a contender? They were a playoff team last year. Their first round pick from last year, should actually help out this year. Maguluga should be better on defense in his second year, and same with Michael Johnson at DE. Antonio Bryant as long as he is healthy (which does worry me) is an upgrade to Coles and first time he really has had a good QB and opposite receiver. So right there is somethings that should make them better from last year. They beat Pittsburgh twice last year, its not like they have done much to make them so much better than the Bengals this year. The Ravens yes added some people, but that defense is getting older and not the great defense of the past. The Bengals are just as much contenders as either of those two teams, and are in a position to get even better in the draft depending on what they do.

I really wish people would stop using the last 20 years in their arguments. You have to admit that since Marvin has got here, they have actually done a better job with things. They really have only had one horrible year, since he has been here and that was 2008. They had some bad luck with some draft picks in that 2005 draft, which really set them back! If that draft class stayed intact, they probably would have made the playoffs more than just those two times IMO.

 

I know Mike Brown has been a HORRIBLE OWNER, and just completely tore down this franchise especially in the 90's. Yet to many people let that memory cloud their thoughts to how things are now. This franchise has not been that bad since 2003. They had a couple of years where they just barely missed the playoffs since then. So what they are doing, is not completely horrible anymore. Yes they still won't go out and make a blockbuster trade or anything like that. However they have done a good job at signing guys for their needs, and even Bryant was a good signing. He was the best option out of the free agent receivers. So they have actually tried to improve. Yes they also try with some of these guys with a past, but most of the deals with those guys have been low risk, high reward for them. Yeah they can still do a better job with things, but like it or not people they have actually done a better job with things. Have to stop focusing on the past, and just look at today.

 

I keep using the "past 20 years" because there is one common thread running through all of those past seasons, and that is horrendously bad ownership that would make Donald Sterling proud. Until that thread is cut, any moves the Bengals make have to be looked at with a skeptical eye.

Why not? I asked you a question before, what good players or even decent players have have the Bengals just let walk that they have drafted? The only one you could probably come up with is Eric Steinbach, and that was only because they choose to give their two tackles big contracts. Which at the time was a smart decision, and had them spending money. They couldn't afford to keep him to with the salary cap. Other than that, they have done a great job at keeping their own. So you don't have much to back up your argument on that.

 

Now why don't you see them as a contender? They were a playoff team last year. Their first round pick from last year, should actually help out this year. Maguluga should be better on defense in his second year, and same with Michael Johnson at DE. Antonio Bryant as long as he is healthy (which does worry me) is an upgrade to Coles and first time he really has had a good QB and opposite receiver. So right there is somethings that should make them better from last year. They beat Pittsburgh twice last year, its not like they have done much to make them so much better than the Bengals this year. The Ravens yes added some people, but that defense is getting older and not the great defense of the past. The Bengals are just as much contenders as either of those two teams, and are in a position to get even better in the draft depending on what they do.

 

You're not getting my argument man. They've never been in this position before with having drafted so well for so many years. If they won't spend money in FA's then they are going to spend with their own players either. Money is money.

 

As far as being a contender I like alot of teams chances over them in any playoff game. The Colts, Pats, Steelers and Chargers are infinitely better at QB IMO, and usually have a good formula for a good defense which will usually give them a chance. The Jets are going to continue to get better and better especially on defense. The Ravens are old, but they have a good organization and will rebuild quickly in the future. I like what the Dolphins are doing (I think they do more with less than anyone in the NFL) and the potential the Titans and Texans have.

 

I don't see how going forward the Bengals are going to be able to keep up or pass some of these teams and that's just in the AFC. They're not going to spend the money in Free Agency to do it and building through the draft is a slow and painful process. Don't get me wrong the Bengals have a nice nucleus, I just don't think that the draft is the answer by itself.

Also as for being a playoff team by the time they got there they were the worst team that made the post season IMO. There isn't a team that they could have matched up with and beat IMO.

Also as for being a playoff team by the time they got there they were the worst team that made the post season IMO. There isn't a team that they could have matched up with and beat IMO.

 

We get it.

Also as for being a playoff team by the time they got there they were the worst team that made the post season IMO. There isn't a team that they could have matched up with and beat IMO.

 

The Bengals got beat by an underrated Jets team that almost made the Super Bowl. If not for Shank Graham, they are right in it late in the 4th.

 

The Pats were embarrassed at home by the Ravens (who the Bengals beat twice).

 

The Eagles were also blown out in the first round.

 

But you are right, the Bengals were the worst team to make it :lol: :lol: :lol: Way to not let your dislike for them cloud your judgement.

Also as for being a playoff team by the time they got there they were the worst team that made the post season IMO. There isn't a team that they could have matched up with and beat IMO.

 

They also had a ton of injuries everywhere last year. The team that ended the year, was not the same team that basically did great to set them up for the playoffs. They showed what they can do when healthy. I know there are always injuries in the NFL, however the Bengals had the injury bug him them in more key spots than most teams. On defense alone, only four guys played every game. By the end of the year half of their opening game starters were not playing on defense anymore. Then on offense both their top TE's got hurt before the year even started, and then the sad passing of Chris Henry. So to look at how they were at the end of the, just simply is not a good thing to base your opinion on. They showed how good they were before all that stuff happened, and they will have those guys back and hopefully should be better on offense this year too. What have those teams you mentioned done, that makes them so much better than a team than they were worst than last year?