At a time of war, financial crisis, debt and deficits, the Dems have launched the biggest expansion of American government since the middle 1960s. Their decision. Their responsibility. Their consequences. Our tragedy.

At a time of war, financial crisis, debt and deficits, the Dems have launched the biggest expansion of American government since the middle 1960s. Their decision. Their responsibility. Their consequences. Our tragedy.

 

"Tragedy" seems a little melodramatic.

I just gets better and better...

 

Bill includes fundemental change or override to basic rules in Senate.

 

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/12/reid_bill_declares_future_cong_1.asp

 

And then he pointed out that the Reid bill declares on page 1020 that the Independent Medicare Advisory Board cannot be repealed by future Congresses:

 

...and i quote -- "it shall not be in order in the senate or the house of representatives to consider any bill, resolution, amendment, or conference report that would repeal or otherwise change this subsection."

 

this is not legislation. it's not law. this is a rule change. it's a pretty big deal. we will be passing a new law and at the same time creating a senate rule that makes it out of order to amend or even repeal the law.

 

Does anyone know if this is common? I would think this right here would be a concern on legal grounds.

 

This bill needs to slow down and be reviewed under a microscope. It's too important on many levels.

"Tragedy" seems a little melodramatic.

Just wait, you'll see.

Just wait, you'll see.

 

What could happen even in a worst case that would warrant a "tragedy" label?

Does anyone know if this is common? I would think this right here would be a concern on legal grounds.

 

This bill needs to slow down and be reviewed under a microscope. It's too important on many levels.

 

There is nothing in our system that cannot be changed, even our Constitution, by going through the proper procedures. Getting the votes to change it be difficult, but it can be changed.

What could happen even in a worst case that would warrant a "tragedy" label?

 

China could quit lending us money b/c we could keep printing it.

China could quit lending us money b/c we could keep printing it.

 

Hasn't that been a worry for a while now?

What could happen even in a worst case that would warrant a "tragedy" label?

Ummmm, it could bankrupt us? :idunno:

Knowing you personally a bit and following you on here I know that you're smart enough to know that "wins" and "losses" sometimes outweigh doing the right thing.

 

Its a flawed bill. No question. However, 99% of the Rs do not want to give what would seem to be a victory for President Obama and other Ds to campaign on. It would have the same result even if it was a great bill.

 

I suppose that when LBJ was pushing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 there might have been some Senators who voted for or against that bill based on their support or opposition to LBJ. But to emphasize the short term political impact of a 'W' or an 'L' would have been a monumental underestimation of the impact of that bill. IMHO, emphasizing that aspect of this bill is no different. This Health Care Bill fundamentally changes health care just as the Civil Rights Act of 1964 fundamentally changed civil rights. Unfortunately, 40 years from now this health care bill won't be viewed in the same positive light as the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is today.

What could happen even in a worst case that would warrant a "tragedy" label?

 

Thousands upon thousands of Americans could be jailed for not paying a mandated tax that they have no choice. Whether they made $1 for the year or $10 Million. This type of forced payment has no equal or precedent in American history or other histories. It is truely 'historic'. That seems to be the only criteria for passing by the democrats who will vote for this new form of totalitarism.

 

This bill makes us all surfs in a fuedal system. That is tragic.

Ummmm, it could bankrupt us? :idunno:

 

Debt is not new to this country. It bothers you now?

Thousands upon thousands of Americans could be jailed for not paying a mandated tax that they have no choice. Whether they made $1 for the year or $10 Million. This type of forced payment has no equal or precedent in American history or other histories. It is truely 'historic'. That seems to be the only criteria for passing by the democrats who will vote for this new form of totalitarism.

 

This bill makes us all surfs in a fuedal system. That is tragic.

 

I think you're being dramatic on the issue of going to jail.

 

I use "tragic" to describe the thousands of lives lost over the last 8 years. That's "tragic." This is potentially a "problem" or a "bad bill." Its far from tragic.

I think you're being dramatic on the issue of going to jail.

 

I use "tragic" to describe the thousands of lives lost over the last 8 years. That's "tragic." This is potentially a "problem" or a "bad bill." Its far from tragic.

 

Pete Rose might disagree with you.

I think you're being dramatic on the issue of going to jail.

 

I use "tragic" to describe the thousands of lives lost over the last 8 years. That's "tragic." This is potentially a "problem" or a "bad bill." Its far from tragic.

 

I know its comforting to be niave about this issue. But its in both bills. They are mandating purchasing of insurance - whether you need or not. You are forced the pay for 'protection' from insurance or the government. Over time this will become only the government since single payer (i.e. health care totalitarism) is the final and only acceptable goal. It is like a surf paying the king for protection. It is not capitalism, it is not socialism - it is a fuedal system of paying for protection. It is like the middle ages. And if you don't - off to the stockades.

 

Read the bill. This is not drama.

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/66879-pelosi-bill-jail-for-no-insurance

 

House bill:

 

 

 

he bill describes the penalties as follows:

 

• Section 7203 — misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

 

• Section 7201 — felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

 

That anyone should face prison for not buying health insurance is simply incredible.

 

And how much will the stay-out-of-jail insurance cost? The Joint Committee noted that “according to a recent analysis by the Congressional Budget Office, the lowest-cost family non-group plan under HR 3862 [the Pelosi bill] would cost $15,000 by 2016.”

 

Obama’s bill only provides subsidies to help pay this enormous sum after families making about $45,000 have paid 8 percent of their income for insurance and after those earning a household income of about $65,000 have kicked in 12 percent.