July 19, 200917 yr I just kind of glanced through this thread so if someone else has mentioned this I apologize...but... Okay, for me, this is fighting and I'd much rather see Brock Lesnar act the way he did instead of the same old "boxing attitude"...."let's hug it out and it was all for promotion" kind of antics. If I am going to watch two people fight, then I would much prefer them to hate each other than to go grab a beer after the match. A good friend of mine fights MMA here in KY and I always tell him I am amazed that two guys can try to pummel and choke the life out of one another and shake hands and hug when it's over. You punch or choke me, I am sorry, we aren't going to be friends.....ever....I don't care how good your technique is....but back to Brock. He flipped off the fans that were booing him. Big deal. He got in Mir's face after the match because Mir had been running his mouth pre fight and Brock really doesn't like him. Is anything Brock did or say any worse than Henderson's post fight interview when Joe Rogan asked him if he knew Bisping was knocked out after the first punch and Henderson replied "Yeah, I knew he was out when he hit the ground, that last punch was just to shut him up." Now, like I said, I like the brutality of the sport so Henderson's actions don't bother me. I know you guys will jump on the fact that in the Henderson fight, the ref hadn't stopped it, but Henderson admitted that last punch he delivered while Bisping was laying on the ground was unnecessary. If the word "classless" is going to be thrown around about Brock, why is not thrown around when it comes to Henderson? If martial arts is about respecting your opponent, shouldn't Henderson have shown more respect to Bisping?
July 19, 200917 yr I just kind of glanced through this thread so if someone else has mentioned this I apologize...but... Okay, for me, this is fighting and I'd much rather see Brock Lesnar act the way he did instead of the same old "boxing attitude"...."let's hug it out and it was all for promotion" kind of antics. If I am going to watch two people fight, then I would much prefer them to hate each other than to go grab a beer after the match. A good friend of mine fights MMA here in KY and I always tell him I am amazed that two guys can try to pummel and choke the life out of one another and shake hands and hug when it's over. You punch or choke me, I am sorry, we aren't going to be friends.....ever....I don't care how good your technique is....but back to Brock. He flipped off the fans that were booing him. Big deal. He got in Mir's face after the match because Mir had been running his mouth pre fight and Brock really doesn't like him. Is anything Brock did or say any worse than Henderson's post fight interview when Joe Rogan asked him if he knew Bisping was knocked out after the first punch and Henderson replied "Yeah, I knew he was out when he hit the ground, that last punch was just to shut him up." Now, like I said, I like the brutality of the sport so Henderson's actions don't bother me. I know you guys will jump on the fact that in the Henderson fight, the ref hadn't stopped it, but Henderson admitted that last punch he delivered while Bisping was laying on the ground was unnecessary. If the word "classless" is going to be thrown around about Brock, why is not thrown around when it comes to Henderson? If martial arts is about respecting your opponent, shouldn't Henderson have shown more respect to Bisping? You must not know much about martial arts. A lot of martial arts is about respecting your opponent. And like many others have said, if not for the fans, Brock Lesnar wouldn't be fighting. He shouldn't be flipping off those who are supporting him financially by buying t-shirts, tickets, PPV's etc. About Henderson, he later said that he was only joking. Most fighters train specifically for knocking a fighter down, and then attacking as soon as they can. Sometimes fighters recover and in that split second there was no way for him to know whether or not Bisping was completely out or not. It was a split second decision. Brocks was not. Frank Mir might have talked smack leading up to the fight, but Brock did just as much talking. He called Mir's belt a "make believe" belt. Almost every fighter talks smack before the fight, but most mature ones are over it after the fight. Sometimes the grudge goes on, but I've never seen the disrespect that Brock Lesnar showed in the cage.
July 19, 200917 yr You must not know much about martial arts. A lot of martial arts is about respecting your opponent. And like many others have said, if not for the fans, Brock Lesnar wouldn't be fighting. He shouldn't be flipping off those who are supporting him financially by buying t-shirts, tickets, PPV's etc. About Henderson, he later said that he was only joking. Most fighters train specifically for knocking a fighter down, and then attacking as soon as they can. Sometimes fighters recover and in that split second there was no way for him to know whether or not Bisping was completely out or not. It was a split second decision. Brocks was not. Frank Mir might have talked smack leading up to the fight, but Brock did just as much talking. He called Mir's belt a "make believe" belt. Almost every fighter talks smack before the fight, but most mature ones are over it after the fight. Sometimes the grudge goes on, but I've never seen the disrespect that Brock Lesnar showed in the cage. No, I don't know much about martial arts, nor do I claim to, but what does flipping off the fans have to do with martial arts? Am I supposed to believe that Brock Lesnar wouldn't be fighting in UFC if not for the fans? If that statement were true, then Kimbo Slice would be the biggest star in UFC. Kimbo has as many people that want to see him succeed as he does that want to see him fail. Kimbo Slice will bring in money....period...which is why he is on The Ultimate Fighter 10 so he can be exposed for his lack of martial arts skills. Of course, this season is likely to be the highest rated season, but whatever. I am sure people will complain when Dana White sets Kimbo up with a trainer so he can really capitalize off of his popularity after TUF 10 is over. But until then.....Kimbo Slice is a way bigger draw than Lesnar, but as my MMA friends explain to me, Dana White is not about the money so why do the fans have anything to do with where Brock is at now? You'll have to explain that one in depth to me. Now, at the end of Lesnar fight, he "disrespected" Mir with words by saying..."talk stuff(he used a more colorful word...) now!!!" He didn't hit him anymore like Henderson did. You can use the whole "Henderson said he was only joking" excuse all you want, but Henderson told the truth in the post fight interview when he was all jacked up adrenaline. That last punch of his had a purpose and in all seriousness, he could have really messed Bisping up seriously with that last punch while Bisping lay helplessly on the ground. Again, I love that stuff and that is why I watch UFC, to see people get jacked up just like that. I just have a hard time believing anything Brock said or did was more "classless" than what Henderson did, which was attack a defenseless human being that he knew he had already knocked out cold. As far as I am concerned, they both did what they were trained to do. It just blows my mind that once someone gets into the mindset of a UFC fighter and then try to legally brutalize the guy across the ring from them and the word "class" gets thrown around. IMO, it's funny that I can knock you out, choke you and bruise your face beyond recognition but as long as I am nice to you after the fight, I am a great guy. :isurrender:
July 19, 200917 yr No, I don't know much about martial arts, nor do I claim to, but what does flipping off the fans have to do with martial arts? Am I supposed to believe that Brock Lesnar wouldn't be fighting in UFC if not for the fans? If that statement were true, then Kimbo Slice would be the biggest star in UFC. Kimbo has as many people that want to see him succeed as he does that want to see him fail. Kimbo Slice will bring in money....period...which is why he is on The Ultimate Fighter 10 so he can be exposed for his lack of martial arts skills. Of course, this season is likely to be the highest rated season, but whatever. I am sure people will complain when Dana White sets Kimbo up with a trainer so he can really capitalize off of his popularity after TUF 10 is over. But until then.....Kimbo Slice is a way bigger draw than Lesnar, but as my MMA friends explain to me, Dana White is not about the money so why do the fans have anything to do with where Brock is at now? You'll have to explain that one in depth to me. Now, at the end of Lesnar fight, he "disrespected" Mir with words by saying..."talk stuff(he used a more colorful word...) now!!!" He didn't hit him anymore like Henderson did. You can use the whole "Henderson said he was only joking" excuse all you want, but Henderson told the truth in the post fight interview when he was all jacked up adrenaline. That last punch of his had a purpose and in all seriousness, he could have really messed Bisping up seriously with that last punch while Bisping lay helplessly on the ground. Again, I love that stuff and that is why I watch UFC, to see people get jacked up just like that. I just have a hard time believing anything Brock said or did was more "classless" than what Henderson did, which was attack a defenseless human being that he knew he had already knocked out cold. As far as I am concerned, they both did what they were trained to do. It just blows my mind that once someone gets into the mindset of a UFC fighter and then try to legally brutalize the guy across the ring from them and the word "class" gets thrown around. IMO, it's funny that I can knock you out, choke you and bruise your face beyond recognition but as long as I am nice to you after the fight, I am a great guy. :isurrender: First of all, Kimbo slice is NOT a bigger draw than Brock Lesnar. Where in the heck do you get that? Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir projected to be around 1.5 million buys, and that was the day after the fight. It could be more than that. Not to mention the Mandalay Bay event center probably sold out as well. Kimbo got good ratings on CBS when he was winning, but as of now, he is not anywhere close to being as big of a draw as Brock. Kimbo was exposed against Petruzelli. And I never said Brock flipping off the fans had anything to do with Martial Arts. I said respecting your opponent does. And if there were no fans to watch Brock Lesnar fight, Brock Lesnar wouldn't be fighting unless he liked doing it for free. The fans buy the tickets, shirts, and PPV's. If Hendo indeed did it on purpose we will never know. You don't know if he was telling the truth after the fight anymore than I do. Dana White said he was angry with Hendo's words after the fight as well, and if it's true that he attacked Bisping knowing he was out cold, it was dangerous. But I can understand the possibility that he might have done that on impulse. MMA fighters train specifically for "rocking" opponents and attacking them as fast as possible. They train it so much that for many of them it is a reaction, not a decision. That could have very well been the case for Hendo that night. He hit Bisping, and reacted without having to think about it to attack again. It was nasty and I loved it. As for Lesnar, most guys can respect their opponents enough after the fight to give them props and hug it out. Lesnar acts like he's unbeatable, but he's only 1-1 against Frank Mir now.
July 19, 200917 yr First of all, Kimbo slice is NOT a bigger draw than Brock Lesnar. Where in the heck do you get that? Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir projected to be around 1.5 million buys, and that was the day after the fight. It could be more than that. Not to mention the Mandalay Bay event center probably sold out as well. Kimbo got good ratings on CBS when he was winning, but as of now, he is not anywhere close to being as big of a draw as Brock. Kimbo was exposed against Petruzelli. And I never said Brock flipping off the fans had anything to do with Martial Arts. I said respecting your opponent does. And if there were no fans to watch Brock Lesnar fight, Brock Lesnar wouldn't be fighting unless he liked doing it for free. The fans buy the tickets, shirts, and PPV's. If Hendo indeed did it on purpose we will never know. You don't know if he was telling the truth after the fight anymore than I do. Dana White said he was angry with Hendo's words after the fight as well, and if it's true that he attacked Bisping knowing he was out cold, it was dangerous. But I can understand the possibility that he might have done that on impulse. MMA fighters train specifically for "rocking" opponents and attacking them as fast as possible. They train it so much that for many of them it is a reaction, not a decision. That could have very well been the case for Hendo that night. He hit Bisping, and reacted without having to think about it to attack again. It was nasty and I loved it. As for Lesnar, most guys can respect their opponents enough after the fight to give them props and hug it out. Lesnar acts like he's unbeatable, but he's only 1-1 against Frank Mir now. I hear you, I just think that people don't like Lesnar and used that as an excuse to call him classless and that people like Henderson so his actions were excused. As far as Kimbo being a bigger draw, I base that off of his internet success and notoriety. Kimbo brings the casual fan in and, IMO, would easily sell more PPV's than anyone. I have yet to buy a UFC PPV, but I could host a party at my house if Kimbo fought. To the UFC/MMA purist, I understand why my words may not be believable, but in terms of making money, Kimbo would bring UFC more money than any other person. Just wait until TUF 10's ratings go through the roof while Kimbo is an actual member of the show. I am not debating he isn't good enough, yet, for success in UFC, but he will bring in money for Dana White. I guess it's a good thing for UFC purists that Dana White doesn't care about money and that he doesn't want to make a mockery of his organization or he would have already had Kimbo. I hope he can prove his point about Kimbo. He will capitalize off of Kimbo one way or another.
July 19, 200917 yr I hear you, I just think that people don't like Lesnar and used that as an excuse to call him classless and that people like Henderson so his actions were excused. As far as Kimbo being a bigger draw, I base that off of his internet success and notoriety. Kimbo brings the casual fan in and, IMO, would easily sell more PPV's than anyone. I have yet to buy a UFC PPV, but I could host a party at my house if Kimbo fought. To the UFC/MMA purist, I understand why my words may not be believable, but in terms of making money, Kimbo would bring UFC more money than any other person. Just wait until TUF 10's ratings go through the roof while Kimbo is an actual member of the show. I am not debating he isn't good enough, yet, for success in UFC, but he will bring in money for Dana White. I guess it's a good thing for UFC purists that Dana White doesn't care about money and that he doesn't want to make a mockery of his organization or he would have already had Kimbo. I hope he can prove his point about Kimbo. He will capitalize off of Kimbo one way or another. I guarantee Kimbo wouldn't bring in more PPV buys than Brock Lesnar. You forget that Lesnar used to be a pro wrestler. Many many many people who were not UFC fans watched UFC 100 for this reason. Most people who know ANYTHING about fighting know that Kimbo is a fraud. And Kimbo won't be on any PPV's anytime soon, or not on the main card anyways. He might make a fight night card, but he'll be out of TUF 10 after 1-2 fights so I seriously doubt he'll make any main UFC ppv cards. Kimbo's numbers on CBS for FREE probably didn't have as good of "ratings" as UFC 100 which was a PPV. What does that tell you?
July 19, 200917 yr I guarantee Kimbo wouldn't bring in more PPV buys than Brock Lesnar. You forget that Lesnar used to be a pro wrestler. Many many many people who were not UFC fans watched UFC 100 for this reason. Most people who know ANYTHING about fighting know that Kimbo is a fraud. And Kimbo won't be on any PPV's anytime soon, or not on the main card anyways. He might make a fight night card, but he'll be out of TUF 10 after 1-2 fights so I seriously doubt he'll make any main UFC ppv cards. Kimbo's numbers on CBS for FREE probably didn't have as good of "ratings" as UFC 100 which was a PPV. What does that tell you? I think that's a good debatable topic....who would have more buys. I think you'd be surprised. Kimbo's numbers on CBS should be looked at more closely. I would bet money that a large majority of people who watched it for free don't buy UFC PPV's, but would if Kimbo was involved. A lot of people I know who watch UFC watch it exclusively and didn't bother to watch Kimbo on CBS because of the quality of the whole card and because they can't stand Kimbo. Simply put, no one watch Elite XC which is why it isn't here any longer. The only time the Elite XC actually had any type of ratings is when Kimbo fought. I am the only person at work who even had Showtime. I also understand that MMA purists cannot stand Kimbo, but if UFC had a PPV with Kimbo in it, the purists would still buy it and like I said, the casual fan who knows NOTHING about UFC would buy it also. That's all I am saying. Kimbo would bring in an all new demographic to the sport. He is a cult hero in the rap/hip hop world. I know he wouldn't make any main events and I only expect him to last 2-3 shows on TUF 10, but like I said, I expect those 2-3 shows to be the highest rated TUF shows ever if they promote Kimbo Slice will be on the show. Granted, the day Kimbo actually trains properly and takes the sport truly serious who knows what could happen. He could lose his cult hero status if he takes another beat down.
July 19, 200917 yr I think that's a good debatable topic....who would have more buys. I think you'd be surprised. Kimbo's numbers on CBS should be looked at more closely. I would bet money that a large majority of people who watched it for free don't buy UFC PPV's, but would if Kimbo was involved. A lot of people I know who watch UFC watch it exclusively and didn't bother to watch Kimbo on CBS because of the quality of the whole card and because they can't stand Kimbo. Simply put, no one watch Elite XC which is why it isn't here any longer. The only time the Elite XC actually had any type of ratings is when Kimbo fought. I am the only person at work who even had Showtime. I also understand that MMA purists cannot stand Kimbo, but if UFC had a PPV with Kimbo in it, the purists would still buy it and like I said, the casual fan who knows NOTHING about UFC would buy it also. That's all I am saying. Kimbo would bring in an all new demographic to the sport. He is a cult hero in the rap/hip hop world. I know he wouldn't make any main events and I only expect him to last 2-3 shows on TUF 10, but like I said, I expect those 2-3 shows to be the highest rated TUF shows ever if they promote Kimbo Slice will be on the show. Granted, the day Kimbo actually trains properly and takes the sport truly serious who knows what could happen. He could lose his cult hero status if he takes another beat down. It's not debatable at all. Whatever "draw" Kimbo Slice once had was decreased tremendously when he was beat by Seth Petruzelli (who weighed in 1 weight class lower for that night). And I guarantee that many MMA fans watched the CBS EliteXC cards that were free. Most people who watch the UFC are not just UFC fans, they are MMA fans. Free MMA is still MMA no matter who is fighting. I am a huge MMA fan, but my favorite organization is the UFC. However I have watched Strikeforce, Affliction, EliteXC, Dream, PrideFC etc. Kimbo Slice is not good, and he's not a huge draw anymore. No where near Brock Lesnar. You mention that Kimbo has a following, but you fail to acknowledge that Brock Lesnar also brings in many fans that wouldn't be watching because of his WWE past. I know plenty of people who will watch any Brock Lesnar fight, but wouldn't even dream of watching or paying for any other UFC PPV. Regardless, the UFC is growing in popularity. I remember back when the first Ultimate Fighter premiered and there were zero ads on the octagon mat during the show :lol:. Now there are ads all over that show. I know this, if Kimbo Slice was the main fight on a UFC PPV card, I wouldn't buy it. Especially knowing that I could see it for free the next day. If Brock Lesnar, Randy Couture, Forrest Griffin, Anderson Silva, or any other top notch UFC fighters are on the card, yes I'll buy it.
July 19, 200917 yr I am sure people will complain when Dana White sets Kimbo up with a trainer so he can really capitalize off of his popularity after TUF 10 is over. BTW, I meant to respond to this and I'm not sure if I did. Kimbo had been training with Bas Rutten before and he never really improved all that much. I'm not sure if a trainer is the problem. I think he's just not very good.
July 19, 200917 yr BTW, I meant to respond to this and I'm not sure if I did. Kimbo had been training with Bas Rutten before and he never really improved all that much. I'm not sure if a trainer is the problem. I think he's just not very good. You are probably thinking right. I wasn't aware he was "training". He's always come off to me as living off of his name.
July 19, 200917 yr It's not debatable at all. Whatever "draw" Kimbo Slice once had was decreased tremendously when he was beat by Seth Petruzelli (who weighed in 1 weight class lower for that night). And I guarantee that many MMA fans watched the CBS EliteXC cards that were free. Most people who watch the UFC are not just UFC fans, they are MMA fans. Free MMA is still MMA no matter who is fighting. I am a huge MMA fan, but my favorite organization is the UFC. However I have watched Strikeforce, Affliction, EliteXC, Dream, PrideFC etc. Kimbo Slice is not good, and he's not a huge draw anymore. No where near Brock Lesnar. You mention that Kimbo has a following, but you fail to acknowledge that Brock Lesnar also brings in many fans that wouldn't be watching because of his WWE past. I know plenty of people who will watch any Brock Lesnar fight, but wouldn't even dream of watching or paying for any other UFC PPV. Regardless, the UFC is growing in popularity. I remember back when the first Ultimate Fighter premiered and there were zero ads on the octagon mat during the show :lol:. Now there are ads all over that show. I know this, if Kimbo Slice was the main fight on a UFC PPV card, I wouldn't buy it. Especially knowing that I could see it for free the next day. If Brock Lesnar, Randy Couture, Forrest Griffin, Anderson Silva, or any other top notch UFC fighters are on the card, yes I'll buy it. I never mentioned Lesnar's WWE following because he never was even a "Triple H" caliber of wrestler when he was in WWE. He made a name and then left. For me, he made more of a name for himself trying to play for the Vikings than in the WWE, but that's just me. I never took him seriously in WWE, but again, that's just me. You also could be right. While I still believe Kimbo would have the Tyson effect and people(i.e. casual fans) would buy because of his name and previous reputation, there is a possibility people may not have an interest in him. With the right promoter(i.e. myself....:lol:) a lot of money could be made off of Kimbo and his name. I'd like to think there are people smarter than me making these decisions and that they would take full advantage of having the money making potential that is Kimbo Slice. I would say the one problem that UFC and all other PPV's have is that in a day or 2, you can watch it for free. I can't lie, that's how I watched it and have it on my iPod.:lol::clap::sssh:
July 19, 200917 yr Lesnar destroyed Mir. That he did. I, for one (based upon pre-fight interviews), would hate to fight Frank Mir's sister. Later.
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