No, Moses is a prophet in the Islamic faith. They worship the exact same God, the God of Moses. The God of Abraham. They just parted ways in the 7th century, and their form of worship is markedly different than how Jews and we Christians worship God. It's still the same Creator.

 

:thumb: Muslims would consider Christians to be wrong by believing in the divinity of Jesus, whom they only consider a prophet.

Might want to change that avatar prior to recruiting new members.

 

:laugh::lol:Stop it...That made my side hurt...:lol:

In the interest of full disclosure, the last book I read was by a former terrorist, a jihadist. He makes some very powerful statemnts in that book, but one that he stated that has me most hooked was that those of us Americans who have defended the religion of Islam as non-violent are wrong. Coming from him, and reading his story, I've begun to change my mindset on Islam. HOWEVER, that is not to say that I believe that all Muslims or Islamic peoples are terrorists. However, from a VERY early age, those taught by devout Muslims are taught that Christians are infidels. It's not that they are subjecting their own interpretation, it is written in the Qu'ran that Jews (first and foremost) and Christians are the enemy and must be destroyed.

 

He also supports, though, my personal theory that a lot of boys become jihadists for reasons that are not strictly religious, but more circumstantial. In his case, he was bullied by some of other religions, and the Islamic leaders were the ones who essentially saved him from the constant bullying. He joined the Muslim Brotherhood at age 7, and was a top leader before he left his teens.

 

His account is much more frightening for me as an American than anything the media has published.

 

I've stated this fact on BGP more than once. For whatever reason, a large number of people absolutely refuse to believe it.

 

There are numerous verses in the Koran that call for violence against infidels. Anyone who is a strict adherent to the teaching of Muhammad and committed to following the Koran, is commanded to commit acts of violence against non-Muslims.

 

Like you, I don't believe all Muslims are terrorists. But, the ones who aren't terrorists aren't following the teachings of the Koran.

Also, I think there are two questions to be asked here.

 

1. Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God? I believe the answer to this question is no. Others say yes. From what I can find, there are conflicting histories about Allah and his origin.

 

2. Do Christians and Muslims both have the correct understanding of who God is? The answer to this question can only be no.

 

Question #2 is the one that matters.

I've stated this fact on BGP more than once. For whatever reason, a large number of people absolutely refuse to believe it.

 

There are numerous verses in the Koran that call for violence against infidels. Anyone who is a strict adherent to the teaching of Muhammad and committed to following the Koran, is commanded to commit acts of violence against non-Muslims.

 

Which verses?

 

Relevant to this thread, from the Quran:

They say: "Become Jews or Christians; you will [then] be guided." SAY: "Rather Abraham's sect, [for he was] a seeker [after Truth]; he was no associator [of others with God Alone]." SAY: "We believe in God and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants, and what was given Moses and Jesus, and what was given the [other] prophets by their Lord. We do not discriminate against any one of them and are committed [to live] in peace to Him."

Which verses?

 

Relevant to this thread, from the Quran:

They say: "Become Jews or Christians; you will [then] be guided." SAY: "Rather Abraham's sect, [for he was] a seeker [after Truth]; he was no associator [of others with God Alone]." SAY: "We believe in God and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants, and what was given Moses and Jesus, and what was given the [other] prophets by their Lord. We do not discriminate against any one of them and are committed [to live] in peace to Him."

 

If you found those verses, it shouldn't be too hard to find the ones that incite violence.

 

Muhammad taught peace early in his "career"...when he had a small following and was too weak to oppose anyone. As he gained a bigger following, and thus more strength, his teachings progressed from peace, to defensive fighting. Eventually, he became strong enough to progress to offensive warfare.

 

Therefore, in the Koran, you'll find verses supporting all these positions. However, the latter verses (teachings) take precedent over the earlier ones, thus nullifying them.

 

So, despite teaching his followers to live at peace with "people of the book" early on, he nullified those teachings later by commanding the opposite.

 

Progressive revelation.

If you found those verses, it shouldn't be too hard to find the ones that incite violence.

 

I've read the Quran and can't find verses that support this:

 

Anyone who is a strict adherent to the teaching of Muhammad and committed to following the Koran, is commanded to commit acts of violence against non-Muslims.

 

Perhaps you are confusing the Hadiths with the Quran.

 

From one of the final chapters of the Quran:

 

SAY: "O disbelievers! I do not serve what you serve nor are you serving what I serve! I will not worship what you have worshipped, neither will you worship what I worship. You have your religion while I have my religion.

I've read the Quran and can't find verses that support this:

 

 

 

Perhaps you are confusing the Hadiths with the Quran.

 

Chapter 9, Verse 5...

 

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

 

Is that not the Koran? If not, then I've been reading something different.

Chapter 9, Verse 5...

 

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

 

Is that not the Koran? If not, then I've been reading something different.

 

Yes, that is from the Quran, but concerning the violation of treaties as I understand it. And I wasn't trying to be rude with my mentioning of the Hadiths, it just seemed to make more sense since they followed Mohammed's actions and have become part of Islamic law.

Yes, that is from the Quran, but concerning the violation of treaties as I understand it. And I wasn't trying to be rude with my mentioning of the Hadiths, it just seemed to make more sense since they followed Mohammed's actions and have become part of Islamic law.

 

No offense was taken.

 

From what I have read of the Koran, people who kill "infidels" aren't going against Muhammad's teachings. It seems to me that those who don't are the ones disobeying the teachings of the religion.

From what I have read of the Koran, people who kill "infidels" aren't going against Muhammad's teachings. It seems to me that those who don't are the ones disobeying the teachings of the religion.

 

The most direct verses seem to indicate that coexistence is best, or that while Christians and Jews are wrong, Allah is the final arbiter. There is certainly violence in the Quran, yet it seems very similar to the violence of the Old Testament, which, coincidentally, may explain my following of Jesus rather than Muslim or Jewish teachings. While my interpretation is possibly clouded from reading other interpretations of the Quran from Muslims (even Sayyid Qutb – the “Islamic philosopher of terror”), I read it from the perspective as being in opposition to oppression. Thus, from my reading, non-believers living in Islamic states must pay a tax, but otherwise be left alone, or non-believing groups (or states, to be modern) are left alone so long as they are not aggressive toward the Muslim group(s).

 

However, the root of the problem of violence in Islam, in my opinion, is the reliance on these varying interpretations, on following the Hadiths (many of which are suspect) and the Sunna. Relying on interpretations, of course, is not inherently wrong, as all of us interpret our respective religions differently, but the problem is more pronounced in the Muslim world as much of it is undeveloped, uneducated, and subsequently illiterate. Many Muslims rely on archaic Arabic traditions or on the interpretations of rural clerics, whose interpretations can never be challenged due to a lack of communication and illiteracy. I have long posited that the most effective tactic against Al-Qaida and those groups who adhere to similarly violent interpretations is not war or ending “Western oppression,” but enhancing the means for the people in those regions to think for themselves.

Have you guys read "Three Cups of Tea"? If not, I would certainly recommend it.

Chapter 9, Verse 5...

 

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

 

Is that not the Koran? If not, then I've been reading something different.

 

It may well be in the Koran, but as Christians and Jews are not particularly idolaters then I don't see where it is inciting violence against other "people of the book." Some may become idolaters but as one of the commandments specifically prohibits the worshiping of idols then anyone who follows said commandments are not idolaters.

I've stated this fact on BGP more than once. For whatever reason, a large number of people absolutely refuse to believe it.

 

There are numerous verses in the Koran that call for violence against infidels. Anyone who is a strict adherent to the teaching of Muhammad and committed to following the Koran, is commanded to commit acts of violence against non-Muslims.

 

Like you, I don't believe all Muslims are terrorists. But, the ones who aren't terrorists aren't following the teachings of the Koran.

 

 

There were many who told me that. I realize I'm an idealist, but I refuse to think badly of an entire group of people because of the actions of a radical element. I know it may not be the wisest choice to many, but I refuse to live my life fearing everyone who may fit a certain general description (meaning race, religion, geographic location, etc).

 

The book I read gave me pause, but it also made me consider how I want to approach my fellow man...in fear, or in trust. I choose trust, because the alternative is too disheartening for me to consider. I may be the next victim, but if so, I will know I tried to treat all people equally, with an open and honest attempt at comradarie...not fear of them or what they may believe. I am idealistic enough to believe that the way to change the heart of someone who hates me, is by allowing them to know me, and to honestly attempt to know them.

Absolutely not. No.