Does Tampa have a solid QB??? I would think No.

 

With the cap space they have they might before next season. I wouldn't be surprised to see them try and trade for Cassell...

Wasn't commenting on Tampa, but more the lack of a solid QB in the Browns program. Winslow would get a lot of looks but the inability to sustain drives and pass protection, wasn't conducive to success.

 

Maybe Winslow will have success with a club, who are more balanced offensively.

 

Well he had a lot of personal success. 2008 he was injured most of the year.. but in 06 and 07 he had great years. 2006 had him catching 89 passes and in 2007 he had 82 for 1100yds and a pro bowl appearance.

They got a 2nd this year and a 5th next year.

Probably the 3rd best TE in the leauge when he's healthy (that's a big when). The Browns aren't talented and they just got worse IMO. You now have B.Edwards who has an awful case of the drops and nobody proven. Congrats way to hang young B. Quinn out to dry! Sometimes they make the Bengals look good and that's hard to do!

I like this deal for Cleveland. Winslow has been a lot of trouble for Cleveland with his injuries (some his fault, some not) and his attitude. Getting a second and an additional pick was good value. He's a good TE, but not a game changer in the mold of Antonio Gates.

Probably the 3rd best TE in the leauge when he's healthy (that's a big when). The Browns aren't talented and they just got worse IMO. You now have B.Edwards who has an awful case of the drops and nobody proven. Congrats way to hang young B. Quinn out to dry! Sometimes they make the Bengals look good and that's hard to do!

 

I liked K2 a lot and he was definitely our best receiver on the team, but it doesnt automatically make us worse. He did have his fair shair of locker room incidents that had an affect on the team.

 

Braylon, if he can revert back to 2007 form, is a pro bowl receiver. JJ looked great in 2007 (was injured all of last year) and will hopefully be ready to go this year and Stallworth can be a good slot when healthy. Thats one pro bowler and 2 solid vets. I agree the WR depth isnt present, but for a starting 3, thats not a bunch of no names.

He's a good TE, but not a game changer in the mold of Antonio Gates.

 

I have to disagree. I watch every game, and when hes been healthy (which I know, hasnt been much) there has been games where he has dominated.

I have to disagree. I watch every game, and when hes been healthy (which I know, hasnt been much) there has been games where he has dominated.

 

I agree. He can be a huge play maker for any team, at any time.

If you are coaching against the Browns as a DCoordinator who scares you? NOBODY! Edwards is the only one that is a threat and he drops so many balls that it can absolutly kill a young QB. They have an over the hill RB, a #2 WR that wasn't on the field last year, gave up the third/4th most talented TE in the league and no #3 WR. Good luck with your new young QB that you have surrounded with no talent other than a guy that drops a lot of balls. You saw the Mon night game I think it was where Quinn first got going. He leaned on K2 the whole game. I'm not a K2 fan but I think it is an absolutly awful move for Clev! They will finish last in the Division IMO.

And then the next game against Buffalo, Cleveland scored 29 and Braylon had 8 for 104 yards and K2 had 3 for 40. Quinn didnt just rely on K2.

Cleveland does NOT have a talented offense and so no, no one really scares you. But at the same time, Kellen has just a few years left IMO because of how bad his knees are. He rarely practiced in 2007 or 2008 to let his right knee heal. And this past year, he was constantly getting called for pushing off because he simply cant cut like he used to. Now, he is still an elite TE and has some of the best hands in the game and I love the guy to death, but I cant criticize Cleveland for getting picks for him when this team has SOO many holes to fill.

 

Like i said before though, if Braylon can revert back to 2007 form (still dropped passes but had a lot of game breaking plays) the offense will atleast be respectable. Braylon is a pro bowl number one when he is like that, and JJ and Stallworth are competent #2 and #3 receivers. Jamal is getting older but still had 1,000 yds last year on a team that the last half of the year was using the #3 and then #4 QB and everyone was stacking the box.

If they move him because he is a cancer with a young QB then I understand a little. They now have one threat on offense. Here is the problem:

1. That threat is very talented but has some of the worst hands in the NFL. That is a nightmare for a young QB. He could come out of it but he hasn't shown he is going to yet.

2. He is now MUCH easier to cover because Cleve just gave up one of the best pass catching TE's in the NFL.

I am not a fan of K2 but I think this is a major upgrade for Tampa and makes a bad Cleve offense worse.

Health is a concern and you roll the dice with him but I don't think Cleve had enough on offense to get rid of possibly their best weapon if not their 2nd best.

Heiden is a very solid TE and has done very well the past couple of years in K2s absence. Rucker is the wildcard. Here is thing, as much as I love K2 and his passion for the game, this team NEEDS picks. There are so many holes on this team and picks are the only way to fill them. From that stand point, I cant be upset with the trade. If you dont understand that, then I dont know what to tell you.

1. That threat is very talented but has some of the worst hands in the NFL. That is a nightmare for a young QB. He could come out of it but he hasn't shown he is going to yet.

 

And again, if he reverts back to 2007 form, this wont be a problem. His hands were never the best but he was VERY MUCH a big play threat and you HAD to respect that. He was good for atleast one long bomb TD a game it seemed like.

 

2. He is now MUCH easier to cover because Cleve just gave up one of the best pass catching TE's in the NFL.

 

Like I said before, Heiden is not the vertical threat K2 is, but he has good hands and is a very solid TE and a much better run blocker.

 

Health is a concern and you roll the dice with him but I don't think Cleve had enough on offense to get rid of possibly their best weapon if not their 2nd best.

 

This team has way too many holes and picks are a must. To be honest, as bad as the offense was in some stretches last year it still was average until we were down to our 3rd string and then 4th string QB. The defense is what has been killing Cleveland the last couple of years. If you wanna talk about a side of the ball that needs improving the most, its the D, not the offense.

And to add one more thing to this... I really wouldnt be surprised if Braylon is dealt before draft day. There is speculation that it could happen and it seems that Mangini and Kokinis are trying to rebuild from scratch and stockpile picks.

I understand you passion for the Brownies but you keep saying IF. That is a BIG IF! Right now the Cleve offense has 1 threat and that threat has an IF too it. To me when you are going to start your franchise around a new young QB then you better have pieces in place around him. I'm not going to kill the trade yet because they could trade to get some kind of weapon. IMO if you are going to start a young QB you better give him a chance to win with weapons around him or you are setting him up to fail. Quinn's situation reminds me too much of what A. Smith and D. Carr stepped into. It has ruined their promising career's. I like Quinn but I think managment has done a terrible job setting him up to fail. Hyden is a servicable TE but he doesn't threaten the middle anywhere close to what K2 does. Once again I'm not a K2 fan but I just don't believe in getting rid of one of your young top 2 players when you aren't very good to start with. Do you think they are going to get much of an upgrade with a 2nd round pick because that is pretty much what the deal is.

There is only a couple of things that makes this deal at all IMO.

1. If he is a cancer to the young QB and I don't think that's the case the way they worked together.

2. If he is hurt worse than we think (very well could be).

3. With Mangini they will be more run oriented (probably will be) they get a better blocker.

4. If they package and get the best corner in the draft because they are awful there.