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That I think is fair. But I will tell you that 4 or 5 of Simon Kenton's key players played college sports, so don't sell them short. McKinley at UK, Meier played baseball at TMC, Dixon played college basketball (Berea?), Mullins played football at Western, Ponzer played football at Hanover. I believe I am right about those. Not sure about others. How many of Holmes' players will go on to college sports? That is a good indicator of talent.

 

Dixon played at EKU.

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Lets be careful here. According to the powerful Atari computers being used in Louisville and Lexington Holmes is not ranked number 1 and never has this year. A team that Holmes beat and a powerhouse from somewhere in KY is ranked higher than Holmes. Holmes needs to beat Cooper by around 90 points because showing up weaker competition is obviously criteria #1 in the rating systems Litkenhous and Mr. Cantrall use.

 

Atari - good one. Can I still get those at Computerland?

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Regardless of whether or not Holmes wins the state title this year (which I'm hoping they do), they will go down as the greatest team to ever come out of the 9th or NKY IMO.

 

Very hard to compare eras, but I think the Holmes 78 and 80 teams are the two best I have seen in my lifetime.

They had all the ingredients. Size, great guard play, physical and finesse inside, and could shoot and play some defense.

In addition, there were more challenges from within the region to those teams, than there are now.

Simply put the 9th Region is really down this year, and frankly it has been the last few years.

Not taking away anything from this year's team...I just hope fans don't start putting unnecessary pressure on these kids with expectations and building them up to be something they are not.

Can they win? They certainly have a very good shot and I hope they do.

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Of the teams mentioned as being #1 in the state, how many actually finished ranked NATIONALLY? Being ranked #1 in the state is nice but national recognition is much bigger.

 

Last year Holmes finished ranked I believe #37 in the USA Today Top 40 and this year's team is currently ranked #24 nationally.

 

That's all subjective and frankly ridiculous.

It is nice recognition though.

How do they even vote on that anyway? You think the high school beat guy for the Modesto Bee has any idea on who is really good other than the household powers?

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Very hard to compare eras, but I think the Holmes 78 and 80 teams are the two best I have seen in my lifetime.

They had all the ingredients. Size, great guard play, physical and finesse inside, and could shoot and play some defense.

In addition, there were more challenges from within the region to those teams, than there are now.

Simply put the 9th Region is really down this year, and frankly it has been the last few years.

Not taking away anything from this year's team...I just hope fans don't start putting unnecessary pressure on these kids with expectations and building them up to be something they are not.

Can they win? They certainly have a very good shot and I hope they do.

 

I'm a fan of those teams, as well, but I think the next two years squads have a chance to get to uncharted territory, at least as far as northern Kentucky goes. So, by any objective standard, I think they might wind up being "better". I reconcile that those teams were the most fun to watch though, because running the break the way Phil and Dicky did is a lost art, and I always liked a break that ended with a no look pass as opposed to a dunk.

 

Without getting too far ahead of things, I think if they could bring a state championship or two home to the Ninth Region, there would be a pretty strong argument that the Bulldog program is one of the most successful in the Commonwealth, at least over the last 35 years - right now they can boast 3 state finals (all runners up - need that trophy to bring the argument home).

 

By the way LABS, I think you lose some street cred when you throw down "geek speak" like Intellivision and Commodore 64 - the only thing missing was the TRS 80 reference.

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I'm a fan of those teams, as well, but I think the next two years squads have a chance to get to uncharted territory, at least as far as northern Kentucky goes. So, by any objective standard, I think they might wind up being "better". I reconcile that those teams were the most fun to watch though, because running the break the way Phil and Dicky did is a lost art, and I always liked a break that ended with a no look pass as opposed to a dunk.

 

Without getting too far ahead of things, I think if they could bring a state championship or two home to the Ninth Region, there would be a pretty strong argument that the Bulldog program is one of the most successful in the Commonwealth, at least over the last 35 years - right now they can boast 3 state finals (all runners up - need that trophy to bring the argument home).

 

By the way LABS, I think you lose some street cred when you throw down "geek speak" like Intellivision and Commodore 64 - the only thing missing was the TRS 80 reference.

I agree with Mr. Steele, the 78' and 80' teams were fun to watch and played the game the right way. I believe they were at the beginning of today's above the rim game. This year's Holmes team plays that game very well and are the most disciplined Holmes squad since the two Holmes teams mentioned above. AAU was something only a few played back then now you have to play to keep up. I think this Holmes team can go down as one of the greatest from NKY and maybe even more. However, I have had my heart broke by the fickle fate of the Sweet 16. Good Luck Bulldogs.

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Who needs a superstar when you play team defense & get each other open?

 

I agree with you. That CCH team didn't have any superstars but all worked very well together which is why they were so successful.

 

I don't think that 03/04 CCH team was as talented as this year's Holmes team though. Honestly I don't think any team to come out of the 9th this decade was as talented as they are.

 

When was the last time a 9th region team had 4, possibly 5 D1 players in their rotation?

 

Only team I can think of that comes close to this team in talent was the SK team led by Brock, Nevels, and Kannady and Brock was the only D1 player in that group.

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I think that is questionable as well.

 

What team would you say had more raw talent than this year's team?

 

Holmes has 4, possibly 5 D1 kids in their 7 man rotation.

 

Riley- Being recruited by Morehead St. (Small D1)

J. Johnson- Wright St, Akron

R. Johnson- UK, Okla. St, Xavier, Miss. St, Miss., Miami U

Pittman- UK, Xavier, Tennessee, Butler, Miami U

Arnold- He is receiving a lot of interest from Indiana as well as several other schools who are inviting him to their elite camps to look at him, but all signs point to him being another D1 prospect.

 

I also think both D. Johnson and Housely could play at the small D2 or D3 level as well.

 

That's 7 college prospects on one team.

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What team would you say had more raw talent than this year's team?

 

Holmes has 4, possibly 5 D1 kids in their 7 man rotation.

 

Riley- Being recruited by Morehead St. (Small D1)

J. Johnson- Wright St, Akron

R. Johnson- UK, Okla. St, Xavier, Miss. St, Miss., Miami U

Pittman- UK, Xavier, Tennessee, Butler, Miami U

Arnold- He is receiving a lot of interest from Indiana as well as several other schools who are inviting him to their elite camps to look at him, but all signs point to him being another D1 prospect.

 

I also think both D. Johnson and Housely could play at the small D2 or D3 level as well.

 

 

That's 7 college prospects on one team.

 

You may be right, but I think, like LABS, it is still subject to debate. I know that if we had been having this conversation in January 1978, I "would have been sure" that Doug Schloemer, Bud Wimzie, Mark Moeves, Phil Davis, Dicky Beal and Rick Walton were all gonna play at the next level (and I would have been right), and I would have argued that possibly Tony Malik, El Simpson or Mark Elmer might be good enough, as well. Schloemer wound up at UC, Dicky at UK, Wimzie at Cincinnati Tech, Moeves at Wilmington (I think), Davis at Central Arkansas (Scotty Pippen's school), and Walton at Cumberland.

 

I hope all of the things work out, and there's at least one state championship trophy in Covington sometime in the next two years, but IMO this team hasn't definitively locked up the "most talented" tag yet. I hope my opinion changes.

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I agree with you. That CCH team didn't have any superstars but all worked very well together which is why they were so successful.

 

I don't think that 03/04 CCH team was as talented as this year's Holmes team though. Honestly I don't think any team to come out of the 9th this decade was as talented as they are.

 

When was the last time a 9th region team had 4, possibly 5 D1 players in their rotation?

 

Only team I can think of that comes close to this team in talent was the SK team led by Brock, Nevels, and Kannady and Brock was the only D1 player in that group.

 

When it comes to individual talent, Holmes probably has an advantage.

 

But so did PRP when CCH beat them in the state quarterfinals with Louisville Recruit (and 6'11'') Terence Farley, 2005 Mr. Basketball JuJuan Spillman, Junior College All American Jazz Neal and others.

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What team would you say had more raw talent than this year's team?

 

Holmes has 4, possibly 5 D1 kids in their 7 man rotation.

 

Riley- Being recruited by Morehead St. (Small D1)

J. Johnson- Wright St, Akron

R. Johnson- UK, Okla. St, Xavier, Miss. St, Miss., Miami U

Pittman- UK, Xavier, Tennessee, Butler, Miami U

Arnold- He is receiving a lot of interest from Indiana as well as several other schools who are inviting him to their elite camps to look at him, but all signs point to him being another D1 prospect.

 

I also think both D. Johnson and Housely could play at the small D2 or D3 level as well.

 

That's 7 college prospects on one team.

 

A lot of time between now and graduation. Look I'm a big fan of theirs, but there has been a lot of good basketball played over the years in this region.

The 1978 team. Off the top of my head:

Beal- UK,

Schloemer (Mr Basketball)-UC,

Phil Davis-Cent Arkansas (I think)

Mark Moeves- drawing a blank but may have played baseball at next level, Sinclair U seems to stick in my mind for him

John Wimzie played college ball

Ricky Walton, Todd Riley, Elliott Simpson, Tony Malik, Todd Whatley, Kevin Sebastian, Mark Elmer, Dave Derkson, all played something at the next level, and I am probably leaving a player or two off.

That is thirteen kids over a 5 year period and I may be leaving a player or two off, like a Todd Feebeck.

Many are too young to remember but from 1976-1980 Holmes had a GREAT run of talent...and is basically where much of their success and tradition derives...not to forget about Tom Ellis, but that was before my time.

Stands were packed night in and night out..and the competition they competed against in the 9th Region was very very good.

Holy Cross, Cov Cath, Newport, New Cath, and Lloyd were really really good, and throw in SK at the end of that decade.

That is simply not the case today.

Like I said it is hard to compare eras, but to simply say it is, is ignoring a great history.

Very tough to anoint this team anything yet...but one thing you can say about them is that they have been successful...and a lot of unwritten chapters left.

Hopefully, there will be some great endings...

Edited by letabrotherspeak
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