How has the pitching staff been upgraded along with ss? I would rather spend that 2 yrs/18 million on another starter for this rotation. The bullpen is better than usual but I still believe they'll have their fair share of problems. And yes for 8 million dollars id love to see Dickerson in left and give him a chance, that saves us 16 million dollars we could use elsewhere. We need a power bat, which Dunn is but what changes have we made to this lineup? You honestly think bring in Taveras along with Dunn would be any different than last year? They might be a little better but not much

 

IMO the last thing they need to spend money on is SP. They've already got to much invested in Arroyo. Plus you've got Harang, Volquez, Cueto, Owings, Maloney, Thompson, Ramirez.

I'm a bit undecided on this. Yes it makes sense if its about $8 mill a year. But at the same time I like that the Reds are looking at other options other than Dunn, its something new and refreshing. And I think they need a right-handed bat instead. That way Phillips stays out of the middle of the order. A lineup of Bruce, Votto, and Dunn would be a log jam of left handed hitters in the middle of the order. All 3 IMO should hit somewhere in the 3-6 spots in the lineup. But regardless of if the Reds wanted him or not, would HE want to come back?

IMO the above is short-sighted. "They weren't winning when he was here before..." Wouldn't that blame be placed somewhere other than the 40/100/100 guy? His defense, while not great, is not "far below average." Its average. "Chemistry" - its not unheard of to bring a buy back in today's game. Dunn was never a problem in the lockerroom so why would it be a chemistry problem?

 

Lets say the Reds are put together to win in 2009. They've got the pitching. They've shored up the defense in CF. They've shored up the SS position defensively. Relief pitchers are healthy and in place. For $8M you would put Dickerson in LF before the 40/100/100 guy?

 

I would disagree with this. By just about anyone's standards, Dunn is a poor fielder and at times is very poor. It's just not his strength. He makes up for it in other ways.

 

$6M would be a more enticing figure to me and would also like to see it be a one-year contract. That way if Dickerson (or someone else) develops, it frees us up to let him go.

For the record, my guess is he'll be a Dodger.

 

I see the Dodgers, Mariners or Nationals. If he wants money itll be the Nationals if he wants to win he'll come down on the asking price and go to the Dodgers. No reason to have silly arguments or convos when in my eyes Dunn will never be in a Reds uniform again

It was a supposition for the sake of argument. Lets say the LF position is the only unsettled position. Now what?

 

I'd be all for bringing him back if they are trying to win this year. However, I would still make an effort to bring in a RH bat instead

I would disagree with this. By just about anyone's standards, Dunn is a poor fielder and at times is very poor. It's just not his strength. He makes up for it in other ways.

 

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If you are comparing it to the average outfielder, I would agree with you. If you're limiting the comparison to LFers only (the weakest of the OF positions) I still say he's average.

IMO the last thing they need to spend money on is SP. They've already got to much invested in Arroyo. Plus you've got Harang, Volquez, Cueto, Owings, Maloney, Thompson, Ramirez.

 

Owings is in turmoil right now with his rocky season last year. If you could tell me he'd win 13-15 games and hit like he can then I'd agree and say the rotation is fine, but you cant. Ive heard if he doesnt make it as the 5th starter hes gone anyway.

Owings is in turmoil right now with his rocky season last year. If you could tell me he'd win 13-15 games and hit like he can then I'd agree and say the rotation is fine, but you cant. Ive heard if he doesnt make it as the 5th starter hes gone anyway.

 

OK...lets say he doesn't work out. What do you do with Thompson, Maloney and Ramirez if you go out and spend money for another pitcher? Let them rot away in AAA?

 

13-15 wins is way to much to ask for out of a #5 starter IMO

OK...lets say he doesn't work out. What do you do with Thompson, Maloney and Ramirez if you go out and spend money for another pitcher? Let them rot away in AAA?

 

Im not really sure on age wise of those 3 but I dont think if you sign a legit starter to a 2 year deal or just a one year deal like the Red Sox did with Penny at 1 year for 5 mill those guys are going to rot away in AAA.

Im not really sure on age wise of those 3 but I dont think if you sign a legit starter to a 2 year deal or just a one year deal like the Red Sox did with Penny at 1 year for 5 mill those guys are going to rot away in AAA.

 

So you don't want to bring back Dunn because that doesn't allow the youth movement to take place....but you do want to bring in another starter that keeps the young pitchers from coming up and developing?

If you are comparing it to the average outfielder, I would agree with you. If you're limiting the comparison to LFers only (the weakest of the OF positions) I still say he's average.

 

So you want to pay a guy 16 mil for two years, that is an avg (I think that is a stretch) fielder, is limited at the plate, is a LH bat (which they don't need) and can't get out of the way of himself on the base paths. Plus exudes laziness which the young players on this club don't need to be exposed to. If you would like the Reds to continue to compete in the NL subCentral then I see where you think it's a good idea..

So you don't want to bring back Dunn because that doesn't allow the youth movement to take place....but you do want to bring in another starter that keeps the young pitchers from coming up and developing?

 

Didnt we go through that last year? Werent a few up them brought up and let develop? You didnt see them bring Bruce up and play a few games and send him back down. He maxed out what he could do in Minor league baseball and he was a needed piece. Do you think those pitchers have proved and worked on everything they can while in the minors? Remember they really only need one might not need none so I guess there just going to rot away anyway no matter the situation?

Didnt we go through that last year? Werent a few up them brought up and let develop? You didnt see them bring Bruce up and play a few games and send him back down. He maxed out what he could do in Minor league baseball and he was a needed piece. Do you think those pitchers have proved and worked on everything they can while in the minors? Remember they really only need one might not need none so I guess there just going to rot away anyway no matter the situation?

 

Thompson was brought up and I believe he got hurt while he was up so he was sent back down....Bailey was brought up, struggled was sent back down. Maloney wasn't brought up because he wasn't on the 40 man roster and there wasn't a good person to take off the roster for him to replace. Ramirez was a september call up and did very well in him time. It's not worth spending money on a pitcher when you've already got players in the system with the ability to put up the same numbers as the FA's you are talking about only spending 5 million on. Number 5 starters are meant to go out and with 15 games. They are meant to eat innings while keeping the club in the game. 10-11 wins and 180-200 innings is fine out of a number 5 starter and Cincinnati has young players with the ability to do just that.

So you want to pay a guy 16 mil for two years, that is an avg (I think that is a stretch) fielder, is limited at the plate, is a LH bat (which they don't need) and can't get out of the way of himself on the base paths. Plus exudes laziness which the young players on this club don't need to be exposed to. If you would like the Reds to continue to compete in the NL subCentral then I see where you think it's a good idea..

 

Let me repeat since its not getting through: IF IF IF the Reds are competing THIS YEAR for a pennant and a 40/100/100 guy is available for $8M (steal) then its a no-brainer. I've never bought into the "he's lazy" thinking. Its all about perception and a 6'6 275 pound guy is not going to look like Ryan Freel when he runs. I've never ONCE heard any negatives about Dunn's influence in the clubhouse. Its actually the opposite - great lockerroom guy.

 

$8M for big production if I think I can win this year? No freaking brainer.

Thompson was brought up and I believe he got hurt while he was up so he was sent back down....Bailey was brought up, struggled was sent back down. Maloney wasn't brought up because he wasn't on the 40 man roster and there wasn't a good person to take off the roster for him to replace. Ramirez was a september call up and did very well in him time. It's not worth spending money on a pitcher when you've already got players in the system with the ability to put up the same numbers as the FA's you are talking about only spending 5 million on. Number 5 starters are meant to go out and with 15 games. They are meant to eat innings while keeping the club in the game. 10-11 wins and 180-200 innings is fine out of a number 5 starter and Cincinnati has young players with the ability to do just that.

 

Just saying they havent proved very much besides Ramirez, and if I had the chance to sign a veteran who is proven and could to that for me at 5 million I'd do it. But thats not the point, I dont see Dunns asking price coming down to our range or use even signing him. So beside Dickerson and Burrell who said was said to be out of price range but is close to a 2 year 16 million deal what other options are left? And what do we do at SS if Gonzo cant go, Keppinger is better coming off the bench for a spark