That is a ridiculous proposition. Can you name any other elected federal position where the burden for proving eligibility does not belong to the person seeking office?

 

The same demand was made of John McCain and he provided proof that he was a natural born citizen immediately. So, neither the fact that you cannot remember another similar case nor your mistaken belief that The One has provided more proof than others who have sought the office provided is relevant.

 

Obama's paternal grandmother is on record claiming that he was born in Kenya and she claims that she was present for his birth. She is probably mistaken, but there is certainly reasonable doubt about his place of birth - certainly enough to dismiss those who question it as nuts.

 

The person who will soon swear to uphold the US Constitution must be willing to abide by all of its requirements. Assuming Obama is a natural born citizen, then he should ask the state of Hawaii to make an official copy of his birth certificate available to those who have challenged his eligibility.

 

delete.

OKAY EVERYONE LISTEN UP- VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND(Not meaning to yell, but this needs to be clear)

 

There have been suits to demand that Obama show an origianl Birth Certificate. Those have no gone anywhere. HOWEVER- The cases that may be heard HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SHOWING A BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

 

 

THe Donofrio Case is IMO the ONLY case that matters right now. Donofrio DOES NOT DISPUTE THE VALIDITY OF THE COLB PRODUCED by the Obama campaign and placed on websites such as http://www.factcheck.org . OBAMA BEING BORN IN HAWAII MATTERS NOT.

 

Because his father was not a US Citizen, then Obama, according to Donofrio, CANNOT BE A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. A Natural Born Citizen must be born in the US, as most of us have always been taught and belived, but a Natural Born Citizen must also have TWO CITIZEN PARENTS. Obamas father never became a citizen according to the case, so therefore could never be a Natural Born Citizen, even if he was born in the White House, swaddled in the Constitution.

 

Once again, not trying to yell with the caps, but things need to be clear. There are arguments that can be made about the validity of the COLB vs. A "long form" birth certificate, but IMO, any argument about that is moot without meaning from the Donofrio case.

 

Good luck, most people ignored your posts before, I hope they read it this time. Unfortunately, people are not reading the bolded.

OKAY EVERYONE LISTEN UP- VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND(Not meaning to yell, but this needs to be clear)

 

There have been suits to demand that Obama show an origianl Birth Certificate. Those have no gone anywhere. HOWEVER- The cases that may be heard HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SHOWING A BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

 

 

THe Donofrio Case is IMO the ONLY case that matters right now. Donofrio DOES NOT DISPUTE THE VALIDITY OF THE COLB PRODUCED by the Obama campaign and placed on websites such as http://www.factcheck.org . OBAMA BEING BORN IN HAWAII MATTERS NOT.

 

Because his father was not a US Citizen, then Obama, according to Donofrio, CANNOT BE A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. A Natural Born Citizen must be born in the US, as most of us have always been taught and belived, but a Natural Born Citizen must also have TWO CITIZEN PARENTS. Obamas father never became a citizen according to the case, so therefore could never be a Natural Born Citizen, even if he was born in the White House, swaddled in the Constitution.

 

Once again, not trying to yell with the caps, but things need to be clear. There are arguments that can be made about the validity of the COLB vs. A "long form" birth certificate, but IMO, any argument about that is moot without meaning from the Donofrio case.

 

Curious, when was this criteria placed forth in the Constitution or placed in practice in jurisprudence? I appreciate your passion but can you show some legwork that documents this historically and legally so we can discuss it?

 

I heard on a talk show the other day that in the early days of this country the interpretation was anyone BORN in the US, even of immigrant parents, was legally a US citizen. That had always been my understanding. (Of course I've been wrong many, many times before. Just ask my wife. )

I know McCain did not win the election, but for the aruguments of the Donofrio case, his eligibility is also in question.

 

http://panamajohn.dominates.us/articles/McCain_Certificate_1_1936x2.jpg-McCains "Long Form"(Vault) Birth Certificate

 

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/mccain%20birth.html- McCains COLB

 

According to some news reports, this infomation was released by a member of the Mcain staff to select reporters.

 

There is dispute over if the City of Colon was ever part of the US Controled Canal Zone. It is not disputed that the US Base was not in the City of Colon. It is located at Coco Solo

 

The Coco Solo Hospital on the base was built in 1941, 5 years after McCain was born. There are discrepancies if the Naval Hospital he was born in, was actually on base, or in the city of Colon.

 

Donofrio belives that he was born in Colon, and that Colon was not part of the US base, or US Controlled, and therefore not natural born, even though both parents are citizens.

Curious, when was this criteria placed forth in the Constitution or placed in practice in jurisprudence? I appreciate your passion but can you show some legwork that documents this historically and legally so we can discuss it?

 

I heard on a talk show the other day that in the early days of this country the interpretation was anyone BORN in the US, even of immigrant parents, was legally a US citizen. That had always been my understanding. (Of course I've been wrong many, many times before. Just ask my wife. )

 

Sorry, I don't belive that. I think that all people born inside the bordes of the US are Natural Born Citizens, parentage or not. What you bolded is the argument before the court. I have got many of the documents that Donofrio is appearing to use before the court, and when I get a chance after Mass and Lunch today, I'll lay everything out. By that time this afternoon, there should also be more word from the Supreme Court on any other action this case has.

Did anyone ever check with his Little League coach? I know that I usually donate at one birth certificate a year to the Little League because I never get it back. I think his Little League coach could solve a national crisis.

MSNBC is reporting that the SC has declined to take up the case. The tin foil hat crowd will need a new cause, or maybe they could spend the next eight years wasting their time on this one. That would be good.

MSNBC is reporting that the SC has declined to take up the case. The tin foil hat crowd will need a new cause, or maybe they could spend the next eight years wasting their time on this one. That would be good.

 

Why do you assume that the entire thing is a waste of time from, as you have said earlier, right-wing nutjobs? Personally, I find it interesting that the term natural-born citizen is never clearly defined. I do not know this man's motivation, but it is probably a good precedent for the Supreme Court to set. Also, I think it brings up another good point in that there should be some sort of process to verify that all Presidential candidates (even McCain) meet the Constitutional requirements for that seat.

http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/orders/courtorders/120808zor.pdf

 

The court will not at this point hear the case, and has refused to grant Donofrios request to stay, or delay the meeting of the Electoral College. They did so without comment.

 

It is still possible the court will decide at a later date to hear the case and decide the questions of Natural Born Citizenship or not, but the likelyhood of that is very slim.

 

There is another case filed by a guy named Court Wortonski, that supposedly is a bit stronger than the Donofrio case. I haven't really looked into it yet, and will have some comment on it later. I do know that the paperwork sent in by Wortonski was sent to the Supreme Court anthrax lab test site.

Why do you assume that the entire thing is a waste of time from, as you have said earlier, right-wing nutjobs? Personally, I find it interesting that the term natural-born citizen is never clearly defined. I do not know this man's motivation, but it is probably a good precedent for the Supreme Court to set. Also, I think it brings up another good point in that there should be some sort of process to verify that all Presidential candidates (even McCain) meet the Constitutional requirements for that seat.

 

If the various states want to establish the type of documentation required to get on the ballot in their state that's fine with me. Until then, the SC did just what they should have done, nothibg.

Here, let me lay out some things one post at a time for sake of discussion/argument:

 

The phrase: "Natural Born Citizen" appears only when discussing the Constitutional Requiremnts of the President of the United States.

 

Article II Section 1 Clause 4: "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of Adoption of theis Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President..."The Constitutional eligibility of the Vice President did not have to match that of the President untill the passage of the 12th Amendment in 1804:"...no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice President of the United States."

 

Natural Born Citizen is not defined. The founding fathers Grandfathered themselves into Presidential eligibility by adding: a Citizen fo the US at time of Adoption. Just about everyone was taught in School that if you were born in the borders of the US, that made you a natural born citizen, no matter where your parents were from.

 

Jus Soli- Right of the soil or the land has generally been thought of to give Americans Natural Born Citizenship

 

Jus Sanguinis- Right of blood, gives Children of American citizens citizenship which some say is natural born, but not clear. The Supreme court has not decided a case like this, and with the Donofrio case on life support right now, doesn't look as if they will anytime soon.

I've heard Obama talk and he sounds like an American. That is good enough for me.

Naturalization Act of 1790:

 

"...the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens."

 

The 1790 Act was repealed and replaced with the Naturalization Act of 1795, which would be repealed and replaced with the Naturalization Act of 1798. In the 1795 and 1798 Acts, the word natural born was deleted and the prase read, "...shall be considered Citizens."

I've heard Obama talk and he sounds like an American. That is good enough for me.

I have also heard Obama talk and his talk about spreading the wealth and establishing a national security force on American soil that would be as powerful and well fiinanced as our military sound distinctly un-American to me.

MSNBC is reporting that the SC has declined to take up the case. The tin foil hat crowd will need a new cause, or maybe they could spend the next eight years wasting their time on this one. That would be good.

Did MSNBC use the term "tin foil hat crowd" or did you come up with that insult on your own? :laugh: It sounds like a Keith Olberman news update to me.